Muller ponders centralisation in bid to make Olympic grade
Ireland’s top women’s hockey players could be in line for a centralisation move that would see them based full-time in Dublin this September, it emerged yesterday.
Irish coach Gene Muller has confirmed he is considering a proposal in a bid to secure Olympic qualification in 2012, a plan which could put him and the Irish Hockey Association (IHA) on a collision course with clubs in Munster and Ulster in particular.
Muller wants his elite players at his disposal in the run-up to the 2011 European Championships, knowing that a top-four place would secure automatic Olympic qualification.
Ireland coach Gene Muller: “We have to do something unprecedented to get Ireland into the Olympics and I am very seriously considering centralisation as the way forward.” Picture: Adrian Boehm
Ireland matched their best-ever finish in the 2009 event, finishing fifth, although heavy losses to Germany and Spain suggested they still have plenty of ground to make up on the bigger nations in order to gatecrash the top four.
Under the plan, a squad of around 20 players, drawn from Munster, Leinster and Ulster, would base themselves full-time in Dublin for a year, partaking in nine training sessions a week.
“We need the squad to train together for a year before the European Championships,” Muller told the Belfast News Letter.
“We must increase our training frequency, volume and standard to give us a real chance. We have to create an environment where players will want to centralise.
“We must give them informed choices, help them with study, work and accommodation. This must be managed logistically. And it will only happen if there is buy-in from the players – they are the primary stakeholders in all of this.
“There will be quality players it does not suit and there is no way I would exclude them from consideration for selection.”
A number of questions remain over the plan, which an Irish Hockey Association spokesperson yesterday stressed is one of a number of moves under consideration.
The potential impact on the working, academic and personal lives of any players who move to Dublin is one such worry.
It is not yet clear whether the players would all play their club hockey for Leinster outfits — or whether they will play at club level at all next season.
Either move could spark negative reactions at club level, with clubs hardly likely to be enthralled at the prospect of losing their top players.
Such a scenario could alter the balance of power in domestic competitions, and the Irish Hockey League in particular.
Senior figures in Munster and Ulster yesterday privately queried the plans, noting that while no player will be forced to move to Dublin, any who wishes to stay put would be at a natural disadvantage.
Julia O'Halloran (left) is one of four Munster-based players who could be affected by the centralisation plan currently under consideration. Picture: Adrian Boehm
There are also fears that the fall-out from such a move could mirror the consequences seen in Irish club rugby after the dawn of professionalism in the mid-1990s, where interest in and revenues from the club game dwindles as the star names became associated with their club in name only.
From a Munster perspective, any such move would affect four players — Irish captain Eimear Cregan, who last week moved to Catholic Institute from Cork Harlequins, her former Quins team-mate Cliodhna Sargent and UCC duo Audrey O’Flynn and Julia O’Halloran.
Nonetheless, Muller noted that five of the world’s top ten countries partake in some form of centralisation — albeit not always on a full-time basis — and contends that it must be given serious thought.
“Centralisation is not an entirely new concept in Irish hockey — players have spent extended time together in the past,” he said.
“I believe we have a rare opportunity to get Ireland into the Olympics. That will improve the game for everyone and also bring more funding into the sport.
“We have to do something unprecedented to get Ireland into the Olympics and I am very seriously considering centralisation as the way forward.”
Muller says the IHA is currently working out project timelines on centralisation and will carry out individual feasibility studies for each of the relevant players.
Post Author:
alangood
23 Replies to “Muller ponders centralisation in bid to make Olympic grade”
I think something new needs to be done – both Men & Women have just missed out on qualifying over the last few tournaments so something new needs to be tried. Having said that it’s a massive commitment for players to move lock, stock & barrell to Dublin. I think we will start to see some of them making themselves unavailable due to individual circumstances. I think it should be tried for this tournament as a trial — clubs can plan to ‘write-off’ one season in the greater good, however potential long term consequences needs further investigation. As mentioned above, senior club rugby in AIL Div 1 & 2 has been devastated since the players moved full-time with the provinces. Would we get Irish players to play IHL only with their clubs?
Interesting idea, worth a shot – would love to see Ireland playing in the Olympics
This will happen I feel, but will it be for the good of the game i doubt it.
We will end up with a university team, as this is the age group that will be able to give the time, it will not be those in employment.
I do not see man employers letting you move to Dublin branches that is if they have them.
Rugby may be able to do it, Rugby, I doubt it.
USA do this and they have qualified for finals I think in the Ladies. But have they been able to sustain it, not as far as I know.
So to play for Ireland you have to go to Dublin, but if you read another thread it is all about strengthening Irish Hockey and Munster Hockey by keeping the players in the club setting.
Plus I have a feeling that many Ulster players would not be available as they normally go to university in Scotland or England and I do not think that would change. So we would loose a quantity of players to the game and possibly force or encourage players to opt to play in those countries.
It would not be for one season, as if they do get top 4 they would stay in the format for another year, and if they dont get top 4 (which is extremely likely with the quality of Germany, Holland, England and Spain all being further in front of us) then the girls would stay centralised for a World Cup Qualifier. Its not about clubs writing off a season at all.
Its about the effect on the girls lives outside of hockey, e.g. If the centralisation was proposed to Cork, how many Dublin based players would move away from their families, friends and lives to re-locate?
Additionally is Mueller the right person for the job? It hardly seems so from his results over the past 3 years? Yes they finished their joint highest fionish ever in the Europeans, but they were extremely lucky in relegation pool, and were further away from the top teams than when Riet was in charge (lost more heavily to Germany, Holland Spain etc). Additionally they have finished below their seeded place in the last two qualifiers they have played in E.g. WCQ and Olympic Qualifier.
Maybe its time for a change at the helm, its a results game and if gene hasnt got results for the last 3 years what suggests this is going to change, that is the question the hockey public should be asking. And I would hope the IHA board are asking, as if this goes through it will be detrimental to Womens hockey in Ireland.
Clubs lose their best players (except Dublin clubs who will gain more)
Clubs lose the ability to have younger players work with their Internationals on a daily basis (or compete against Internationals)
Closed shop for the senior team (anyone performing well outside the group of 20 players centralised are overlooked)
Added pressure on the committment that players have given to play for their country, may lead to more retirements etc!
Good points Vet. I think it should be given a go and he has said that if players can’t commit, then they would still be eligible for selection. An olympic place, would do wonders for the game. If the men were to do it as well and qualify, then it could potentially create a huge interest in the boys game, which is badly needed – remember Irish Cricket?
Rugby is an interesting case. Has Munster’s success developed their sport more than if we had stuck to the club game? Of course it has. There seems to be rugby clubs everywhere now, in little towns, in GAA strongholds, in places you’d never expect to see a rugby club. More and more kids playing the sport all the time.
So fair play to Muller, I hope the country can get behind the idea if he goes ahead with it.
Riet’s highest ever finish was 7th and we have been in the A division for longer. There is no comparison between the results Kuper had and Muller had. Both Irish teams have lost as heavily to other European top nations, and Riet’s squad had a much higher average age with lower average number of caps per player than the current one.
Whether or not they were extremely lucky in the relegation pool is irrelevant. You can only play the sides you are drawn against, it’s not Muller’s fault.
If the centralisation was proposed for Cork, how would we know what the Leinster and Ulster based players would do?
Where does it say that if centralisation happens, that players will play for Leinster clubs – it is plausible that players will train in Dublin and then play IHL games for their club? They won’t be playing league hockey anyway in Munster, so it won’t make any difference where they train and whether or not they compete against internationals.
I agree not having internationals at training is a down side, but if a coach is aware of it, they can plan around it.
As for it being a closed shop, I doubt that the coaching staff are that narrow minded. There are interpros and open trials and they will not ignore consistently good performers.
Indeed there will be added pressre on commitments, but wouldn’t it be worth it if we qualify and if we don’t at least we’d have tried something different, because the current scenario isn’t working. Players have huge pressures put on them to travel, then train, then travel again, far better if they only have to go a few miles to train at the highest level.
I think we need to see the details around this plan before we all start making judgements. Keep an open mind until we know what the story is!
Austrailia centralise and it seems to work for them!
THIS IDEA SHOULD BE STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS.DO PEOPLE FORGET THAT THE CLUBS MAKE THE IHA NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.THERE IS ENOUGH HANDICAP FOR CLUBS TO DO WITHOUT THEIR INTERNATIONALS FOR MOST OF THE YEAR.DO WE JUST WANT LEINSTER CLUBS TO GET THE PICK OF MUNSTER AND ULSTER PLAYERS.CLUB RUGBY IS ON ITS KNEES DUE TO PROFESSIONALISM.MOST OF THEIR INCOME IS GOT FROM SELLING INTERNATIONAL TICKETS AT INFLATED PRICES IE IRELAND V ENGLAND TICKETS 350 EACH FOR NEXT SATURDAY.
THE IHA BETTER WAKE UP TO THE SITUATION THAT HOCKEY IS LOOSING MANY PLAYERS EACH YEAR,WE MAY BE BABY SITTING THOUSANDS ON SATURDAY MORNINGS BUT CHECK THE NO S TEN YEARS LATER AND SEE HOW MANY OF THEM ARE LEFT
CLUBS SHOULD STOP IT NOW
In relation to the following Comment left at 6 mintes past 1 15th feb:
As for it being a closed shop, I doubt that the coaching staff are that narrow minded. There are interpros and open trials and they will not ignore consistently good performers.
Do ireland take the Interpros seriously anymore? If they did then selections would take place after these tournaments and performance would matter! Which is not the case at all in reality. With Squads being named Senior and Ireland A pre Interpros. Ireland have lost all value in these tournaments and just pay a passing glance to them. The coaches have missed Tournaments in the Past. There is no respect for the history of these competitions and they are not used as a competitive tool for selection at all. They should either be integrated into the Seniors Programme or else scrapped as they are just a cost to the Branches and clubs.
In relation to players, whilst all coaches views on particular players differ, you cant argue with facts and Jean McDonnell (Railway Union) is the highest scorer in the country for the past three seasons, and has never been offered an opportunity by Mueller. Surely it would be worth giving her a shot at international level. She is 26 not 36, is the coach saying that this age is too old to be considered for International recognition?
As for coaches planning around competing without their players I guess that will have to be the case if this nonsense goes through!
Jean Mc Donnald did get a call up from what I know but wasnt up to the standard. Shes a top class finisher but it has to be said a lot of that is also down to the service she gets from her team. Anyway it seems 26 is a bit old for Gene. He needs more of a chance before people start complaining about him.
The problem with Munster hockey is the Interprovincials are now a joke. Any decent player in a non AIL playing club has no other oportunity to be seen only for the Interprovincials Tournament.
Gone are the days when large numbers would turn up to trials and people fight for positions. This year the ladies under 21 and senior struggled to find coaches willing to take the teams. Last year the coaches had to ring players asking them to make themselves available. Should this not be the other way around.
The first senior ladies trial was a couple of weeks ago and only six players turned up, and all were from UCC. Apparently none of the clubs were even told they were on.
How can our Senior ladies players even compete with only six players willing to go?
Munster are weeks and in some cases months behind the other three provences.
How can our clubs develop players if this is how the Interprovincials shaping up again this year?
For the first time ever I find myself agreeing with Pat!
HI SURPRISED, WHAT DID I EVER DO ON YOU ,PERHAPS IF YOU PUT YOU NAME DOWN WE CAN SORT THINGS OUT.
Limerick Vet: Who would coach the Seniors and Under 21 Sides when the best players are not available, can you blame them? Why Munster are even participating is the proper question to be asking? Two tournaments on the one weekend plus seniors away on International Duty make the tournament a farce. All those players and no-one from the IHA bothering to watch, Senior and Ireland A Squads named, what chance does anyone else have of making these teams?
Jean McDonnell not up to Scratch, So She scored all those goals as her team’s service is so good! Are you for real? If gene cant see how good jean is then we should be looking for someone else! Or he should at least give her a chance!
Also Mnster will be years behind the other provinces if centralisation goes through as we will lose all our best players longer term!
I agree completely about the interpros. If they are a joke, as people seem to think, then why should their history be respected? Is it a case that selection criteria have changed? In my humble opinion we should get rid of both the senior and U21s and have an U23s tournament annually, used for selection and additions to the squads. Now that the Irish 21s is gone, wouldn’t this make sense, plus a good financial saving for the branches?
The Women’s Senior team hold open trials for players to go through and coaches can nominate.
As far as I know, Jean McDonnell was included in the Ireland A group for a while, but I’m not sure what came out of it.
Open trials are the most Stupid idea and initiative I have ever seen implemented by the IHA. When Meuller had open trials in his first year I can live with that (as he was new to the country 3 years ago), but surely when he had the second one people should have been asking questions.
Is there a need for these trials if he had actually bothered to get around the grounds and watch games or talk to club coaches about their players, or even use interpros as a selection tool. Then an open trial is not required. he should know the majority of senior and underage interpro standard players in the country.
Also with an open trial for it to be deemed sucessful someone has to be selected through from it, which means a waste of time. How have the players who made the squad through open trial fared in his long term squad???? Waste of time and money, Just either watch club games and interpros, and put some value back in to our tournaments which everyone wanted to play in before, or leave its that simple.
I just want to know if Pat Dawnsons Caps lock is broken of something?
It was suggested that the Inter-pros should not be run in the current format. I understand that the Branches had signed up for this format and had to put teams in otherwise the branches would be fined by the I.H.A.
Even though coaches had expressed reservations about having both U21 and Seniors inter-pros held at the same time.
The best format has to be an U23 format, but it should allow for injured senior players being allowed to play if they are recovering from injury plus it should allow for late developing players to be introduced to a higher level of play to see if they can make the standard.
All I see now is if you have not made the Senior Ladies by 21 or 22 it is to late and iff you have not made the mens by 23 or 24 you are unlikely to make it. Alan Giles is the exception and I applaude the Senior management for selecting him.
Hockey is at a very crucial stage in this country if we make a few wrong decisions the game may fade off the sporting map all together.
The centralisation could work but is likely to lead to the end of the sport outside Dublin if followed in a serious manner.
Regarding the centralisation, I’d like to kjnow where it says that centralised players will play for Leinster clubs? I’d also like to see where it says this will be for anymore than 2011/12 season in preparation for trying to qualify for London.
None of the internationals, regardless of where they play, will be playing league hockey anyway, as they’ll all be training in Dublin every weekend. They’ll only be available for IHL and senior cup games and will be able to play for their home clubs for these matches.
The downside is them not being at training, but why stifle their chances by keeping them at your training sessions to bring on your younger players? Surely our coaches are good enough to create the right training environment and development plans to bring plazyers on, regardless of who they train with.
HAS ANYONE ASKED THE INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS HOW THEY WOULD FEEL ABOUT IT?
With regard to the open trials, thewy are held after interpros in case the senior coaches miss someone. Shirley mcCay is one player who benefitted from this process and a number of Munster players have attended them and gotten good feedback. Ask them if they think it was a waste of time.
Let’s all wait and see the details, if any, that are planned and then go off on our various rants.
Also the U23 interpros would be a great idea!
Their plans will be dictated to the branches and clubs again, as that is what the iha DO!
And if we wait to see what they come up with then it will be a done deal.
Shirly McCay probably went to the open trial as she was injured previously and was asked to attend like two others from the North and Emer Harte had been previously. And im sure they got great feedback????
Its great to see that the perception is that we have loads of quality coaches in Munster? can this statement be backed up?
In relation to Interpros and Munster being fined if they didnt compete, why not just say to IHA “No” that would be dramatic wouldnt it? When you are fined, just say “No”, “you changed the rules, same weekend does not suit Munster, why should we be fined for IHAs mistake?” Why not stand up to the IHA and have Munsters voices heard instead of rolling over.
It’s certain that doing what we are currently doing isn’t working, if Ireland are to play in a World tournament anytime in the near future something has to change. If we continue in the same way then the national teams will continue to get the same results, something drastic needs to happen. Whether centralisation to Dublin is the answer I don’t know.
What about making all our international players to play for clubs in Holland or Germany???
Just to give you an idea of the coaching quality in Munster:
Coaches in Munster Division 1:
UCC – Dennis Pritchard, Irish Senior Womne’s Assitant Coach
Harelquins – Eddie Gash, Irish TID Group Head Coach
C of I – Phil Oakley, Irish U18 assistant coach
Bandon – Eddie Kirwan, Irish Universities Coach
Institute – Ger O’Carroll, Munster 18s, 21s
Waterford – Chris Thomas, Level 2 coach
Ashton – George Treacy/Bernie Heffernan – former Irish Women’s Senior Coach and former international/former international
UL – Spanish coach (not sure of his name)
Mens:
UCC – Neil Welch
CI – Stephen Jackson
Bandon – Ger Burns
Institute – Ollie O’Coonor
Quins – Stephen Dale
That is a pretty good list of coaches I reckon, all of whom should be able to run sessions that can develop players without internationals attending those sessions. Add in then non-club coaches who are active: John Hobbs (former Irish U18 boys coach), Dave Egner Munster U18s, Alan Dobson Munster 21s etc. This doesn’t even include those coaching in underage sections, lower division teams etc.
McCay played the full interpros and then attended the trial and was selected from that. She wasn’t injured.
Goals win matchs. It must now surely be obvious that the approach of focusing on NOT CONCEDING GOALS will continue to stunt Irelands progress at international level.The ability to retain posession and physically shield the ball appears not to be in the this squad.Currently in munster we have a lady who week in week out demonstrates her committment and ability to score goals. It is encumbent on the management to investigate the possibility of securing the services of this lady from THE FARMERS CROSS CLUB for INCLUSION on the panel for The Celtic Cup. If the service can be provided I have no doubt that the net will bulge regularly.
I agree with spectator…surely the Irish Squad should be picked on ability and current club form rather than age (or whatever policy Muller currently uses). The Irish squad is weak, particularly in the midfield and forward line, largely because Muller picks his favourite players and not on merit. When was the last time he watched any of the Munster clubs play? As the results from the GB matches show, there is a lack of creativity and cutting edge. Time for an overhaul of the selection process to make it more transparent and fair!
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I think something new needs to be done – both Men & Women have just missed out on qualifying over the last few tournaments so something new needs to be tried. Having said that it’s a massive commitment for players to move lock, stock & barrell to Dublin. I think we will start to see some of them making themselves unavailable due to individual circumstances. I think it should be tried for this tournament as a trial — clubs can plan to ‘write-off’ one season in the greater good, however potential long term consequences needs further investigation. As mentioned above, senior club rugby in AIL Div 1 & 2 has been devastated since the players moved full-time with the provinces. Would we get Irish players to play IHL only with their clubs?
Interesting idea, worth a shot – would love to see Ireland playing in the Olympics
This will happen I feel, but will it be for the good of the game i doubt it.
We will end up with a university team, as this is the age group that will be able to give the time, it will not be those in employment.
I do not see man employers letting you move to Dublin branches that is if they have them.
Rugby may be able to do it, Rugby, I doubt it.
USA do this and they have qualified for finals I think in the Ladies. But have they been able to sustain it, not as far as I know.
So to play for Ireland you have to go to Dublin, but if you read another thread it is all about strengthening Irish Hockey and Munster Hockey by keeping the players in the club setting.
Plus I have a feeling that many Ulster players would not be available as they normally go to university in Scotland or England and I do not think that would change. So we would loose a quantity of players to the game and possibly force or encourage players to opt to play in those countries.
It would not be for one season, as if they do get top 4 they would stay in the format for another year, and if they dont get top 4 (which is extremely likely with the quality of Germany, Holland, England and Spain all being further in front of us) then the girls would stay centralised for a World Cup Qualifier. Its not about clubs writing off a season at all.
Its about the effect on the girls lives outside of hockey, e.g. If the centralisation was proposed to Cork, how many Dublin based players would move away from their families, friends and lives to re-locate?
Additionally is Mueller the right person for the job? It hardly seems so from his results over the past 3 years? Yes they finished their joint highest fionish ever in the Europeans, but they were extremely lucky in relegation pool, and were further away from the top teams than when Riet was in charge (lost more heavily to Germany, Holland Spain etc). Additionally they have finished below their seeded place in the last two qualifiers they have played in E.g. WCQ and Olympic Qualifier.
Maybe its time for a change at the helm, its a results game and if gene hasnt got results for the last 3 years what suggests this is going to change, that is the question the hockey public should be asking. And I would hope the IHA board are asking, as if this goes through it will be detrimental to Womens hockey in Ireland.
Clubs lose their best players (except Dublin clubs who will gain more)
Clubs lose the ability to have younger players work with their Internationals on a daily basis (or compete against Internationals)
Closed shop for the senior team (anyone performing well outside the group of 20 players centralised are overlooked)
Added pressure on the committment that players have given to play for their country, may lead to more retirements etc!
Good points Vet. I think it should be given a go and he has said that if players can’t commit, then they would still be eligible for selection. An olympic place, would do wonders for the game. If the men were to do it as well and qualify, then it could potentially create a huge interest in the boys game, which is badly needed – remember Irish Cricket?
Rugby is an interesting case. Has Munster’s success developed their sport more than if we had stuck to the club game? Of course it has. There seems to be rugby clubs everywhere now, in little towns, in GAA strongholds, in places you’d never expect to see a rugby club. More and more kids playing the sport all the time.
So fair play to Muller, I hope the country can get behind the idea if he goes ahead with it.
Riet’s highest ever finish was 7th and we have been in the A division for longer. There is no comparison between the results Kuper had and Muller had. Both Irish teams have lost as heavily to other European top nations, and Riet’s squad had a much higher average age with lower average number of caps per player than the current one.
Whether or not they were extremely lucky in the relegation pool is irrelevant. You can only play the sides you are drawn against, it’s not Muller’s fault.
If the centralisation was proposed for Cork, how would we know what the Leinster and Ulster based players would do?
Where does it say that if centralisation happens, that players will play for Leinster clubs – it is plausible that players will train in Dublin and then play IHL games for their club? They won’t be playing league hockey anyway in Munster, so it won’t make any difference where they train and whether or not they compete against internationals.
I agree not having internationals at training is a down side, but if a coach is aware of it, they can plan around it.
As for it being a closed shop, I doubt that the coaching staff are that narrow minded. There are interpros and open trials and they will not ignore consistently good performers.
Indeed there will be added pressre on commitments, but wouldn’t it be worth it if we qualify and if we don’t at least we’d have tried something different, because the current scenario isn’t working. Players have huge pressures put on them to travel, then train, then travel again, far better if they only have to go a few miles to train at the highest level.
I think we need to see the details around this plan before we all start making judgements. Keep an open mind until we know what the story is!
Austrailia centralise and it seems to work for them!
THIS IDEA SHOULD BE STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS.DO PEOPLE FORGET THAT THE CLUBS MAKE THE IHA NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.THERE IS ENOUGH HANDICAP FOR CLUBS TO DO WITHOUT THEIR INTERNATIONALS FOR MOST OF THE YEAR.DO WE JUST WANT LEINSTER CLUBS TO GET THE PICK OF MUNSTER AND ULSTER PLAYERS.CLUB RUGBY IS ON ITS KNEES DUE TO PROFESSIONALISM.MOST OF THEIR INCOME IS GOT FROM SELLING INTERNATIONAL TICKETS AT INFLATED PRICES IE IRELAND V ENGLAND TICKETS 350 EACH FOR NEXT SATURDAY.
THE IHA BETTER WAKE UP TO THE SITUATION THAT HOCKEY IS LOOSING MANY PLAYERS EACH YEAR,WE MAY BE BABY SITTING THOUSANDS ON SATURDAY MORNINGS BUT CHECK THE NO S TEN YEARS LATER AND SEE HOW MANY OF THEM ARE LEFT
CLUBS SHOULD STOP IT NOW
In relation to the following Comment left at 6 mintes past 1 15th feb:
As for it being a closed shop, I doubt that the coaching staff are that narrow minded. There are interpros and open trials and they will not ignore consistently good performers.
Do ireland take the Interpros seriously anymore? If they did then selections would take place after these tournaments and performance would matter! Which is not the case at all in reality. With Squads being named Senior and Ireland A pre Interpros. Ireland have lost all value in these tournaments and just pay a passing glance to them. The coaches have missed Tournaments in the Past. There is no respect for the history of these competitions and they are not used as a competitive tool for selection at all. They should either be integrated into the Seniors Programme or else scrapped as they are just a cost to the Branches and clubs.
In relation to players, whilst all coaches views on particular players differ, you cant argue with facts and Jean McDonnell (Railway Union) is the highest scorer in the country for the past three seasons, and has never been offered an opportunity by Mueller. Surely it would be worth giving her a shot at international level. She is 26 not 36, is the coach saying that this age is too old to be considered for International recognition?
As for coaches planning around competing without their players I guess that will have to be the case if this nonsense goes through!
Jean Mc Donnald did get a call up from what I know but wasnt up to the standard. Shes a top class finisher but it has to be said a lot of that is also down to the service she gets from her team. Anyway it seems 26 is a bit old for Gene. He needs more of a chance before people start complaining about him.
The problem with Munster hockey is the Interprovincials are now a joke. Any decent player in a non AIL playing club has no other oportunity to be seen only for the Interprovincials Tournament.
Gone are the days when large numbers would turn up to trials and people fight for positions. This year the ladies under 21 and senior struggled to find coaches willing to take the teams. Last year the coaches had to ring players asking them to make themselves available. Should this not be the other way around.
The first senior ladies trial was a couple of weeks ago and only six players turned up, and all were from UCC. Apparently none of the clubs were even told they were on.
How can our Senior ladies players even compete with only six players willing to go?
Munster are weeks and in some cases months behind the other three provences.
How can our clubs develop players if this is how the Interprovincials shaping up again this year?
For the first time ever I find myself agreeing with Pat!
HI SURPRISED, WHAT DID I EVER DO ON YOU ,PERHAPS IF YOU PUT YOU NAME DOWN WE CAN SORT THINGS OUT.
Limerick Vet: Who would coach the Seniors and Under 21 Sides when the best players are not available, can you blame them? Why Munster are even participating is the proper question to be asking? Two tournaments on the one weekend plus seniors away on International Duty make the tournament a farce. All those players and no-one from the IHA bothering to watch, Senior and Ireland A Squads named, what chance does anyone else have of making these teams?
Jean McDonnell not up to Scratch, So She scored all those goals as her team’s service is so good! Are you for real? If gene cant see how good jean is then we should be looking for someone else! Or he should at least give her a chance!
Also Mnster will be years behind the other provinces if centralisation goes through as we will lose all our best players longer term!
I agree completely about the interpros. If they are a joke, as people seem to think, then why should their history be respected? Is it a case that selection criteria have changed? In my humble opinion we should get rid of both the senior and U21s and have an U23s tournament annually, used for selection and additions to the squads. Now that the Irish 21s is gone, wouldn’t this make sense, plus a good financial saving for the branches?
The Women’s Senior team hold open trials for players to go through and coaches can nominate.
As far as I know, Jean McDonnell was included in the Ireland A group for a while, but I’m not sure what came out of it.
Open trials are the most Stupid idea and initiative I have ever seen implemented by the IHA. When Meuller had open trials in his first year I can live with that (as he was new to the country 3 years ago), but surely when he had the second one people should have been asking questions.
Is there a need for these trials if he had actually bothered to get around the grounds and watch games or talk to club coaches about their players, or even use interpros as a selection tool. Then an open trial is not required. he should know the majority of senior and underage interpro standard players in the country.
Also with an open trial for it to be deemed sucessful someone has to be selected through from it, which means a waste of time. How have the players who made the squad through open trial fared in his long term squad???? Waste of time and money, Just either watch club games and interpros, and put some value back in to our tournaments which everyone wanted to play in before, or leave its that simple.
I just want to know if Pat Dawnsons Caps lock is broken of something?
It was suggested that the Inter-pros should not be run in the current format. I understand that the Branches had signed up for this format and had to put teams in otherwise the branches would be fined by the I.H.A.
Even though coaches had expressed reservations about having both U21 and Seniors inter-pros held at the same time.
The best format has to be an U23 format, but it should allow for injured senior players being allowed to play if they are recovering from injury plus it should allow for late developing players to be introduced to a higher level of play to see if they can make the standard.
All I see now is if you have not made the Senior Ladies by 21 or 22 it is to late and iff you have not made the mens by 23 or 24 you are unlikely to make it. Alan Giles is the exception and I applaude the Senior management for selecting him.
Hockey is at a very crucial stage in this country if we make a few wrong decisions the game may fade off the sporting map all together.
The centralisation could work but is likely to lead to the end of the sport outside Dublin if followed in a serious manner.
Regarding the centralisation, I’d like to kjnow where it says that centralised players will play for Leinster clubs? I’d also like to see where it says this will be for anymore than 2011/12 season in preparation for trying to qualify for London.
None of the internationals, regardless of where they play, will be playing league hockey anyway, as they’ll all be training in Dublin every weekend. They’ll only be available for IHL and senior cup games and will be able to play for their home clubs for these matches.
The downside is them not being at training, but why stifle their chances by keeping them at your training sessions to bring on your younger players? Surely our coaches are good enough to create the right training environment and development plans to bring plazyers on, regardless of who they train with.
HAS ANYONE ASKED THE INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS HOW THEY WOULD FEEL ABOUT IT?
With regard to the open trials, thewy are held after interpros in case the senior coaches miss someone. Shirley mcCay is one player who benefitted from this process and a number of Munster players have attended them and gotten good feedback. Ask them if they think it was a waste of time.
Let’s all wait and see the details, if any, that are planned and then go off on our various rants.
Also the U23 interpros would be a great idea!
Their plans will be dictated to the branches and clubs again, as that is what the iha DO!
And if we wait to see what they come up with then it will be a done deal.
Shirly McCay probably went to the open trial as she was injured previously and was asked to attend like two others from the North and Emer Harte had been previously. And im sure they got great feedback????
Its great to see that the perception is that we have loads of quality coaches in Munster? can this statement be backed up?
In relation to Interpros and Munster being fined if they didnt compete, why not just say to IHA “No” that would be dramatic wouldnt it? When you are fined, just say “No”, “you changed the rules, same weekend does not suit Munster, why should we be fined for IHAs mistake?” Why not stand up to the IHA and have Munsters voices heard instead of rolling over.
It’s certain that doing what we are currently doing isn’t working, if Ireland are to play in a World tournament anytime in the near future something has to change. If we continue in the same way then the national teams will continue to get the same results, something drastic needs to happen. Whether centralisation to Dublin is the answer I don’t know.
What about making all our international players to play for clubs in Holland or Germany???
Just to give you an idea of the coaching quality in Munster:
Coaches in Munster Division 1:
UCC – Dennis Pritchard, Irish Senior Womne’s Assitant Coach
Harelquins – Eddie Gash, Irish TID Group Head Coach
C of I – Phil Oakley, Irish U18 assistant coach
Bandon – Eddie Kirwan, Irish Universities Coach
Institute – Ger O’Carroll, Munster 18s, 21s
Waterford – Chris Thomas, Level 2 coach
Ashton – George Treacy/Bernie Heffernan – former Irish Women’s Senior Coach and former international/former international
UL – Spanish coach (not sure of his name)
Mens:
UCC – Neil Welch
CI – Stephen Jackson
Bandon – Ger Burns
Institute – Ollie O’Coonor
Quins – Stephen Dale
That is a pretty good list of coaches I reckon, all of whom should be able to run sessions that can develop players without internationals attending those sessions. Add in then non-club coaches who are active: John Hobbs (former Irish U18 boys coach), Dave Egner Munster U18s, Alan Dobson Munster 21s etc. This doesn’t even include those coaching in underage sections, lower division teams etc.
McCay played the full interpros and then attended the trial and was selected from that. She wasn’t injured.
Goals win matchs. It must now surely be obvious that the approach of focusing on NOT CONCEDING GOALS will continue to stunt Irelands progress at international level.The ability to retain posession and physically shield the ball appears not to be in the this squad.Currently in munster we have a lady who week in week out demonstrates her committment and ability to score goals. It is encumbent on the management to investigate the possibility of securing the services of this lady from THE FARMERS CROSS CLUB for INCLUSION on the panel for The Celtic Cup. If the service can be provided I have no doubt that the net will bulge regularly.
I agree with spectator…surely the Irish Squad should be picked on ability and current club form rather than age (or whatever policy Muller currently uses). The Irish squad is weak, particularly in the midfield and forward line, largely because Muller picks his favourite players and not on merit. When was the last time he watched any of the Munster clubs play? As the results from the GB matches show, there is a lack of creativity and cutting edge. Time for an overhaul of the selection process to make it more transparent and fair!