Ireland senior women’s coach Gene Muller has further outlined his plans to centralise the team to Dublin from this October.
News of the Irish Hockey Association’s plans were revealed in February, and have drawn intense criticism from high-profile figures within the game.
Further Irish success is dependent on centralisation, according to Gene Muller. Picture: HockeyPress Argentina
However, Muller last night explained the rationale behind the idea to base an elite group of players full-time in Dublin for 10 months, in a bid to secure qualification for the 2012 Olympics in London.
“We’re making some drastic changes, and looking at a central programme as of October, to increase our chances and make it a level playing field,” he told RTÉ Radio One last night.
“We’ll be getting all of the players who live outside Dublin — or as many of them as possible — to relocate.
“We are expecting players to make fairly radical life changes with very little financial compensation. When you suggest something like this, there has to be buy-in from the team. The players realise there is an opportunity that might not present itself again in terms of having an Olympics so close to Ireland.”
“They also know this is a team that’s starting to mature. It wasn’t really a difficult sell; it’s an opportunity that might only present itself once in a player’s career, so you train hard, you make sacrifices.
“It ends up that teams will often succeed or fail at the final hurdle. My thinking, and that of the team, is that increasing training frequency, time together and the physical demands of the team could be our final hurdle, and if we cross it, it might just be enough to get us to London.”
When pressed by RTE’s Darragh Maloney whether he felt the plan would draw more criticism based on Ireland’s World Cup qualification failures in Chile, Muller intimated that it was necessary to challenge the status quo in hockey’s world order.
“It (centralisation) does eat up funding. But in terms of understanding the economics of it, we’ll effectively run a programme off a tenth of what England have. Your choice is to accept the disparity, or move to change it. Whereas countries like England can spend their way to an advantage, we rely on the energy of the players to make up the deficit.
Gene Muller: believes Ireland cannot sit still in their efforts to qualify for the London Olympics in 2012. Picture: Deryck Vincent
He added: “There will always be many opinions regarding a team performance. We under-performed (in Chile) to the extent that we finished third going into a tournament in which we were seeded second.
“But if you look at it comparatively to what’s happening in other countries, the support for Irish sport would be lower than in other countries. The opinions will always be diverse, but if you spend too much time worrying about it, you might get a situation where it paralyses you.
“The one thing our programme has found is ways in which we can empower the team to go forward, and not to be too concerned by the detractors, of which there will always be many.”
Muller went on to praise the contribution of the sports councils on both sides of the border, as well as sponsors ESB, insisting that “they are interested and absorbed with the team’s process, and part of the drive for success is to see these people’s investment pay off”.
He also added that Ireland’s national side had more of a developmental role to play in its athletes’ careers, than might be the case in other countries.
“Hockey in Ireland, compared to other world nations, is fairly small. So the national team is essentially the vehicle for the development of players, its not just the vehicle for the expression of competence.
“In Holland or Australia, the provincial or club system might be good enough to develop a player so they can perform in the national setup. I think in Ireland it’s different, there is a strong development aspect to the programme.
“I think with our standing comparative to other teams, there really is no choice for us. We have to bank on a group of players, and hope to develop them to a point where we can beat teams who are often traditionally stronger than us.”
To listen to the full Gene Muller interview, click here
Post Author:
alangood
50 Replies to “Muller expands on centralisation plan”
this is a truly offensive article..
“Hockey in Ireland, compared to other world nations, is fairly small. So the national team is essentially the vehicle for the development of players, its not just the vehicle for the expression of competence”
i can’t believe he actually said this. i have lost all respect for Gene on this.
why don’t we all just pay our club subs directly to the IHA, dissolve all league hockey and just play the odd social tournament once in a while? clearly all the coaches in Ireland, top coaches such as Ned, Andy, Mick,Dennis can’t develop a single player for you Gene? yes i know some i’ve listed are in the men’s side of the game. i don’t see Revs coming out and spouting such outrageous remarks? oh also i tell you what.. i’ve seen Revs at probably 6/7 or our club matches this year. not just in dublin either. Gene? how many games have you been to? the distain in which you hold hockey here is a disgrace. Maybe you should head back to Canada where you have most of your players in the BC region.. oh wait. since you’ve left they have won the pan ams played in an olympics and a world cup…
outrageous
It would be different if we were talking about centralizing players to New York from around the US, or centralizing to Moscow from the East Coast of Russia… but we’re talking about a country that is 300m x 200m. Seriously.
You’re a National coach, not a provincial coach.
This is the most stupid plan I have heard. It will be the death knell of the sport for Ireland.
Personally I would not let my daughter take time out and live in Dublin if she was good enough.
Playing with your club and your peer group is essential for club hockey I feel in ireland. It is club hockey that is the back bone of the sport, not Irish Hockey.
What will the Ulster players do? They may just opt out of Irish hockey completetly.
Or is this the plan just to concentrate hockey in Leinster only and let the rest of Ireland fade into oblivion.
This is what I have been worried about! Gene has taken this team as far as he can go, and now he is offending the clubs as well who have developed the players that he has selected for the last nearly 4 years… A ridiculous man. IHA here is your moment to make a difference and get rid. Time for a change is now, Centralisation is nonsense
Maybe the first thing that needs to be looked at is the coach. He says they under achieved in Chile – yes but nothing new there!! That’s 4 times out of 5 with this coach they have failed to reach their seeded position at major tournaments (Euros; Olympic Qualifier; Champions Challenge and now World Cup qualifier) and thats before you mention Celtic Cup which he is yet to win and we are seeded first!!
REit Kuper didn’t have anything like the time this coach has had with he players yet won Celtic Cups; got to seeded positions; had us in the running for qualification not out after first 2 games.
As for England – well what have their women done?
As for everyone doing more? which countries train weekly? Probably very few if any – and certainly not Scotland!!!
Would love to know where in the world the money is going to come from to fund this centralisation, we cannot fund our underage national teams….
How do the hockey public get their message across to Gene or the IHA?
Is there a process by which people from certain clubs could talk in confidence to the Board or IHA? If someone from a particular club goes public or asks for Gene’s position to be reviewed? The what happens to the international players from that club, will it be held against them towards future selections?
Girls are being asked to relocate to Dublin and put their trust in this man to develop their talents the biggest question is Why Gene? Why not someone else? Can they not develop within their province with the coach visiting once a week etc?
How about having the last weekend in each month for International sessions from 16s to 18s and Seniors. League matches played in all other weeks and those ones saved for International training camps, which could be shared around the provinces etc! Hockey clubs not playing matches could train or watch Irish sessions.
Problem solved!
So, any person with the ambition and talent to play senior Irish hockey in the future, will only achieve this if they are willing to transfer their LIFE to Dublin.
This would render the IHL pointless on the ladies side. I imagine all the players would have to play with a club in Dublin therefore making all sides in Munster and Ulster far less competitive. Also I believe the main reason for the IHL was to have the best from each province playing more competitive matches. If they however end up joining 1 or 2 clubs in Dublin this means less competitive games. This is all under the assumption that the players in the Irish set up are indeed the best in Ireland.
We should really talk about the facts we all know that it takes time to develop teams structures and ways of playing! It’s not different at school, club, interprovincial, national or international level. Any coach has a vision an idea about where he wants to go and where he wants his team to go at the moment maybe the Irish team aren’t where they should be. I think if you listen to Gene’s interview and comments this is the truth! So hence centralisation a concept never attempted before which will run for a relatively short period from October. I too am frustrated with recent results no doubt but I’m willing to look forward! When was the last time we qualified for a major international tournament on the women’s side! I mean qualified not hosted! I would much prefer to see Ireland play in an olympics than win a celtic cup, World Cup Qualifier tournament. The focus must be about next years Europeans and closing the gap and if it takes this I’m willing to give it a try! We should all be willing to give it a try, people are talking about all the money gone into the program etc and I agree but what purpose would a change bring now! I think a more important question that we all seem to be missing is that everything in Irish hockey at the moment is geared towards 2012 but what about after that! Where is the pathway after that I think we’ve lost sight of the fact that we are completely engrossed in whether he is or isn’t the right man or if he is or isn’t doing the right thing’s. As a hockey community we should be preparing ourselves and Irish hockey the two certainties that lie ahead a) Where or what happens if we do not make the olympics b) What happens if we do! We’ve committed our selves and Irish hockey completely to 2012 there is no point now jumping ship we must make sure we give ourselves every opportunity to achieve the dream! Otherwise failure to do so could have devastating impact on Irish hockey into the future
Ireland need to qualify for the Olympics, it would do the sport no end of good. I think Mullers plan makes sense. Ireland being a part of 2012 will boost the grass roots level, because no world cup, or European championships will ever get the coverage the Olympics will get, and exposure and television coverage of the game is vital. Young players see where they could potentially end up if they continue playing the sport, and those who have never watched a game could be turned on to it, there is nothing like Olympic success to boost a sport.
Ireland have a great team. They played a stormer against Australia. Scotland may not train weekly, but we shouldn’t be aiming for Scotland’s level (no offence to the Scots!). The other teams in Europe have professional players, you just can’t compare, if Ireland have any realistic chance, they need this plan. I think the players should be encouraged to do this, like Muller said, this is the golden oppurtunity of a life time, not just for the athletes involved, but for the future of Irish hockey.
What happens if we don’t make the Olympics? I agree that this would make the IHL useless. The IHA have done a good thing with the IHL and now they are planning on taking away the internationals from the clubs and therefore reducing the standard. Insane I say.
Scotlands squad is more or less centralised. Two players live 1hr 3/4 drive away with the rest all less than 40 min drive. They have training together one night every wk and their wkene sessions would be as frequent as the Irish girls. Gene is doing great job and has picked right players. The players need to start performing at the levels they have shown they can perform at consistently. If that happens 2012 here we come
Small anon says above: “We’ve committed our selves and Irish hockey completely to 2012 there is no point now jumping ship we must make sure we give ourselves every opportunity to achieve the dream! Otherwise failure to do so could have devastating impact on Irish hockey into the future.”
Does this mean you are one of the girls involved or a branch member or IHA member? Do they control you? Or are you an onlooker, watching from the sidelines saying this is the right thing to do for these girls to do, take two years out of their lives and relocate to Dublin to work within a substandard coaching structure, within which they have underperformed for nearly 4 years. Im failing to see how you are coming to your conclusions?
What would you do if you were one of the girls?
The dream, who is having this dream. Ask most coaches in Ireland if they think that the ladies will qualify, and you will get a shake of the head. The answer is based on that the current squad is limited, lacks real flair and has no world class players.
No matter how much money is spent they will not qualify.
This will have a devistating effect on the sport, schools will not take the game seriously, coaches WILL NOT go that extra mile to help a player and then have the player taken off them to play in Dublin.
What happens to the player if the coach says they are not good enough, they have possibly changed jobs, or university and then in this ruthless world you are told ‘on your bike, your out’.
They may not then want to stay in Dublin or play in that league, will the universities let them change if they are dropped from the squad.
This move is just playing into the hands of other sports who will now rub their hands with glee and start to take young players out of the game.
this is ridicules! what about the players form cork or the north who will have to uproot their lives and college/jobs to move to Dublin?! has anyone asked the players about how they feel about this? What will Eimear Cregan do? for example she is a teacher in laurel hill, coaches the senior A side and plays with Cath Inst?
will this mean all the Dublin clubs will get all of the internationals?
WHO HAS GIVEN GENE PERMISSION TO CENTRALISE THE WOMENS PROGRAMME?
Has this been given the green light by the borad? Or the High Performance Director, who has the final say on the direction that these people coaching with irish teams do?
I would be fairly confident stating that the Girls outside of Dublin are being railroaded into this, how can they say no? If they do they are as much as out! I believe one player from the north is not going to centralise. How many minutes did she get in Chile at the WCQ? Answer 0, as she was not selected, over 60 caps less than 25 years of age! I find it Very surprising she was not included!!!!!!!!
I would love a chance to be part of this centralization plan.
What is so wrong with people and change? The way it is now, its not working, lets change it and see if it works…than you can all tell Gene you told him so and kick him to the curb. More intensive hockey is needed for anyone who intends on playing international senior hockey. The likes of Eimear Cregan Julia O’Halloran have played how many league matches compared to a non international player in Munster this year? They spend any time not playing with their club(which is a lot)away at training weekends with the Irish team. So if our leagues are carrying on without them, and lets face it, division 1 has become more competitive as the big clubs no longer have their internationals what is the problem? Are we not enjoying the hockey on our own doorstep that we have to complain about the Irish team. Its so far out of our reach we’re better off forgetting about it and forming our own international team down here in Munster. None of the giving out about gives any credit to any of the players that put in so much effort. They choose instead to degrade and put down what hard work the players have put in. Its a shame credit isn’t given when it its due, even if it is only a small tiny bit.
Yeah, I think if Ireland really wants to compete internationally more intensive hockey is the way. A successful international team can only do the sport good at every level.
To who allowed this: there were a couple of players in the squad in chile that won’t be able to centralise. It is silly to say that the northern player was dropped because gene knows she can’t centralise nxt yr. He understands that it is impossible for some pple to relocate and that he won’t ignore them for selection. He did say that the pple that don’t relocate will be at a natural disadvantage and obviously so. If the whole aim of centralization is to go that extra yard with the team and make it better then naturally the people that don’t will fall behind development wise.
Why not give it a go! This is what Gene was hired to do. His whole focus over last two years has been to qualify for 2012, anything else was a bonus. If we dont qualify, then fair enough give the guy a hard time.
I also don’t think its fair for people to be giving out on behalf of the Munster players in particular. Has anyone spoken to the girls involved? If anyone took the time to listen to these girls they all want and are happy to make this commitment. Some of them have given years to this sport and this is their big opportunity to really go for it and qualify for a major tournament. And for once we’ll be on a level playing field to other countries in terms of preparation.
Gene isn’t forcing anyone to move anywhere. The squad fully supports his idea. Do people really think Gene goes shooting his mouth off without discussing everything with the team and the IHA.
If this centralisation causes major problems for some players he is more than willing to work with and around peoples lives, he understands fully this is a massive uprooting.
Lets give the girls the support they deserve. Fair enough the results were poor in Chile but I’m sure no one is more disappointed the the girls themselves after all their hard work.
Worried X 3 – I believe my statements are quiet clear! I believe Irish Hockey has failed to plan past 2012! So therefore I believe we must take every measure to ensure Irish Hockey puts itself in the best possible position to qualify for the olympics! As I have already said the impact of success and failure will affect the sport either way and in a massive fashion! Where do you think all the funding has come in recent years, and those supporting Irish hockey will want to see a return on their investment! This is the bigger picture (funding), player’s always come and go, coach’s do as well, structures change but opportunities such as the one upon us have to be seized! Will centralisation work who know’s we are all guessing! Why not take a moment to look at the bigger pic a short term sacrifice by player’s, club’s etc compared to the long term benefit’s to Irish hockey why not take the risk nothing ventured nothing gained! Player’s like any individual should and will make their decision’s based on what is right or wrong for them and their circumstance’s and this should be enough for anyone if players want to do it let them make the commitment don’t stand in their way or belittle their choice or the program for it and if other’s choose not to they have their own reason’s and should not be used as weapon’s to knock something we’ve never attempted before. Let’s take the risk, let’s get behind it as a former player an opportunity to be a professional at hockey which is essentially an amateur sport would for me be to good an opportunity to miss out on!
Ireland A Player!
There are a couple of problems with the Centralisation proposal:
1) You say you would love to be part of it, therefore there is already a vaccum to Dublin from the other provinces, i.e. our best talent is being dragged to Dublin, further deminishing the Munster League, Cups, IHL, ISC chances etc.
2) Where is the development structure for the rest of Ireland, if 24-26 athletes are centralised. What happens to YOU if you have the best season ever next term and people are calling for YOU to be brought into the programme? How does that happen, Gene has invested money (and the ESBs and Sports Councils) into the program, how can he afford to bring you to Dublin. SIMPLY he CANNOT. So it is effectively a closed shop for a period of 2 years, meaning that some players will miss out on a chance to progress into this squad. E.g. Australia had an 18 year old playing at WCQ, that will not happen for Ireland in the next 2 years, so there is no chance of the best Munster talent like Naomi Carroll or Roisin Upton being looked at as exciting young Munster talent in that timeframe, which I believe is a shame. Neither is there a chance that you will enter the programme in that window. Because you are from MUNSTER and they cannot afford to put you in. Leinster is different, they can come in as they live there and would be invited to be part of the group.
3) Gene mentions about the improved performance of the group against Chilie and Australia. He even mentions that they were in the ascendency against Australia after half time before the PS. I’m wondering was he even watching the same game I was? Australia looked sharper and stronger and thats the major difference. Ireland looked devoid of ideas in the 25, and only got PCs from crash balls in and mistraps, so how does that equates to ascendency?
4) I really hope someone questions this whole process at the AGM, or perhaps an EGM should be called. There are too many problems with the proposal, and too many stand to lose from it. E.g. The increased cost to the participants in the underage programs from the money all being invested into this program. The lack of a pathway of development for these players into the senior program for 2 years. No regional development sessions for 2 years, non Leinster clubs lack of access to their top players who act as a vehicle for development for the younger players in training / games. The turning upside down the girls lives whom are involved in the programme.
IHA WAKE UP
If I was good enough to play for Ireland, and had to relocate for Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I would expext the I.H.A. to pay the difference that would occur in my wages, lifes expenses still have to be paid and I have had to take a pay cut, so someone will have to pay and even if I play on saturday I can get over time and the same on Saturday.
Or is it that we will take only students into this program, the cheap people the ones always available.
I think there are some well made points in this debate.
A shame those of you who have complaints did not come forward at the Munster AGM to propose that Munster would question what was going on? There was a perfect chance to ask the branch to do it at the AGM and nobody did because, as IHA Wake up says ”I really hope someone questions this whole process at the AGM, or perhaps an EGM should be called”. Really hoping won’t achieve much.
Will any of the people on this blog or their clubs actually attend the IHA AGM to ask these questions? I doubt it, why bother when you can log on here and have a bitch, but in reality do nothing about it. All talk if you ask me.
I cannot afford to go to Dublin to attend a meeting. I have been to these meetings before and its a done deal.
Also has anyone asked how all this will disrupt the other squads that we have especially the senior men who probably will have their budget cut even more to fund this folly. I actually think this is already in place and the meeting does not matter. But the efeect on the whole of Irish hockey will be seen as the other squads suffer and players leave the game. This is really putting all our eggs in one basket and hoping big time that we get really lucky and some of the bigger nations boycott the tournamant for some reason or another.
If this fails and it is highly likely to what will be the state of the sport and will the Irish Sports Council ever give hockey any funding in the future.
hoping big time that we get really lucky and some of the bigger nations boycott the tournamant for some reason or another
Ireland don’t need the ‘bigger nations’ to boycott. We came 5th in Europe last euro champs, no reason, with the intensive training, why Ireland can’t qualify, and do well.
If it is a done deal, then it’s time to support the girls and Muller all the way.
I can understand the long term outlook that people can see with disruption to club hockey etc. but I think it’s worth a shot for the next couple of years pre-2012 qualifying. If we make it to London, it will be a massive boost to the game – when was the last time we qualified?? Look at what happened with the cricketers after they did well in the World Cup. Massive boost to their game with the exposure that followed – we need to do what we can to get similar opportunity for hockey by competing in the Olympics…. especially in London with games on in our timezone & massive TV coverage. Great opportunity to showcase our sport to kids..
Definition of insanity is repeating the same action & expecting a different result. What’s the point in continuing with current modus operandi? We haven’t qualified in years for any of the major tournaments. We don’t have the money to give the squad full time contracts & this is one way to increase the number of sessions the squad have together. I don’t think it’s realistic to ask players from Cork or Belfast to travel to Dublin 2 or 3 times a week for sessions, makes sense to have them relatively close to where the sessions are held..
As someone pointed out in this thread, maybe we don’t have the right coach or the right players but it’s worth a shot for a couple of years.
It’s not the end of the world to try this for a couple of years for the clubs… the biggest impact is to the players affected – let them decide if it’s a runner. I think the men should try this as well…
It’s easy to criticise the IHA & coaching set-up but it’s time to try something different – has anyone any other ideas that could be tried considering our current financial limitations?? We have a massive opportunity on our doorstep, would be a disaster if it’s wasted…
Lot of people on here saying what is the difference, just try it and see what happens. You are missing the point, the system in place currently is much better than the system Riet had but GENE is not getting results at present with more resources than Riet. So why give Gene this extra time.
Solution: Gene out, better coach in.
I made the point above, How about having the last weekend in each month for International sessions from 16s to 18s and Seniors. League matches played in all other weeks and those ones saved for International training camps, which could be shared around the provinces etc! Hockey clubs not playing matches could train or watch Irish sessions.
What do people think of that?
The men are sensible they will not try it.
But their budget will be terrible affected.
This cut is likely to hold back the development of a young squad that has more chance of producing a world class player that may make the difference in a tight tournament.
It would be interesting to get a look at the total amount each senior squad has spent over the last few years.
It would not surprise me to find that the ladies squad have had by far the biggest share without having brought home many titles or appearances in finals.
Worried X2 – I think you’ve missed the point! This is not about a permanent solution, this is an approach available to the current management to try and reach the next level! It’s impact on Irish hockey will certainly be disruptive but considering what we have already invested and potential overall gain to the sport. I see no reason why we should not go for it! There is no point to comparing coach’s past or present, as it can be easily be applied to player’s as well. Your idea of alternative weekends is a fine solution for underage set-ups but in term’s of national I believe it’s not the option here! The gap must be closed in term’s of player development look at the forth coming european club championships for women, – ireland have no team competing in the top tier while other nations we believe we are as good as have club side’s in the competition Spain (2) Scotland (1) UKraine (1) Azerbaijan (1) Russian (1) We only have one team in the trophy Loreto while our other representatives UCD are in challenge 1. So it quiet obvious even within our Irish Club structures we may have not reached the highest level yet in terms of European hockey. There is a significant gap and in order to close it and be as best prepared for next year’s European’s having a centralised program make sense!
Worried x 2 – can you tell me Riet’s best finish in a Europeans during her tenure? Check your facts before making a comparison between Gene and Riet.
Yes the girls qualified for a World Cup, by total luck – a penalty shoot out where the opposition didn’t turn up, great way to qualify.
The facts are that Gene has finished higher in Europe than Riet ever did, and with a vastly younger squad, who are gaining experience all the time. Yes recent results haven’t been great but at least he’s trying to address it. From my understanding the players themselves want this, so it’s their choice as much as it is Gene’s. If they thought it wasn’t a good idea, then why would they want to do it?
I’m not defending his recent record or the fact that he has never seen a Munster league game, but just making the point that throwing up comments that aren’t true, doesn’t help the debate.
I think that this idea is crazy when the IHA obviously don’t have the money and taking the money from other squads that will be forced to pay around €300 a year to play for their country is stupid it will make our sport too elite and will prevent very talented but not so well off players from participating at high levels!
If Passmore as High Performance director cannot stop this venture and do what is best for our sport then maybe we should be looking for his job as well as Genes
IHA archives no 3 4th of march note from D.Passmore indicates after feasability studies and consultation with stakeholders that if finances are available from ISC and NIS then possibly all systems go. It seems unusual that the announcement to Centralise did not come from the High Performance Director.Gratifying that Mr Muller acknowledges the main sponsors ESB are “interested and absorbed with the teams process,and part of the drive for success is to see these peoples investment pay off”. Could we possibly see some input from the main sponsor in bolstering the coaching element????to protect their investment.
Is the ESB a ladies or Mens sponsor, the ladies, if we see decisions decided upon what the sponsor and to improve their profile, we are going down a dangerous road.
Reply to Hmmm
Maybe you should check your facts before you make sweeping statements. The facts are gene has not finished higher at a Europeans than Gene. RIET led the team to 5th at the Euros A Division in 2005. Results and Final Standings here: http://www.eurohockey.org/archive/nationscup_senior/2005_w_natcup_abc.pdf
She finished 5th, having missed out on qualification for the semis on Goal difference, the team was much closer to Spain and Holland than they are under Gene’s tenure (in terms of goals and results). Back then we never lost to Scotland either. It is Gene’s choice to have a young squad, there are plenty players in the 24-30 age bracket available to Gene which HE CHOOSES not to select. So the with a significantly younger squad does not wash. With international sides you select your best, whilst also preparing for the future, perhaps this balance has been lost under Gene.
You also mention that under Riet the girls qualified for a world cup on penalty strokes, where the other team didnt turn up and relate that to luck. Did you see the games at the euros last year where gene finished 5th? To say ireland were not LUCKY to finish 5th last year with the performances they had at that tournament in Holland, would be stretching the truth. That was the luckiest thing that has happened Gene so far in his tenure.
Have you spoken to the girls who stand to be centralised? Do you know for fact that they want to go? Or if they had a choice in the matter and it would not negatively effect their chances of still being selected, would they still go? Leave their home clubs, families, social circle, support network, when they did not have to? Or if they were facilitated regionally.
After responding to your comment, I know that your facts are not right, so why should anyone believe anything you say. My facts are 100%
Why centralise in Dublin ? The costs up there are the highest and you spend all day in traffic (if not clamped in Belfield do we have to pay for them too?) Why not bring the girls to Limerick with all the centres of sporting excelence there ? (and Dave Passmore would save on his travel) or too the real capital (with UCC and C of I pitches) ? Much cheaper doctor & dentist bills than in Belfield – http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0512/health.html
Seriously though – why Dublin ? why not Belfast, Limerick or Cork ?
Centralization or no centralization ireland will NOT qualify for an olympics. They are simply not talented enough and gene has done the best he cud do with the lot he has. They can’t even beat Scotland whose squad will only have about 3 players on the gb squad that will play in the olympics. It was pure luck that they finished 5th in the Europeans and the world ranking of 15th is so untrue . They should be somewhere like 25th. The wcq in chile they came joint last out of five teams but u cud say 3rd also. . Aus 12pts scot 9pts ire chile and Malaysia all on 3 pts
I really hate that I have to keep saying this, but can people please exercise some restraint when posting comments? Discussing the centralisation concept is fine but some people have gone way too far overboard with personal comments.
It has made this thread a nightmare to moderate, especially at a time where I have college finals to be concentrating on, and my phone hasn’t stopped hopping. Please keep it general from now on, across the board.
Alan good is a gobshite. Is that restrained enough?!?! Ha I joke….
It’s still less costly to centralise in Dublin. If you were to centralise in cork for eg it would mean uprooting the entire squad to move bar the 3 cork players. Centralizing in dub means far less players are moved. Fair point to make tho.
Interesting point regarding the Scottish GB players. I wonder how many Irish players would be good enough to make that squad? On the men’s side, at least 2 have been coaxed across. I cna’t see 2 of ours making the GB women’s team, so perhaps Scotland have improved a lot over the past few years?
If we do centralise it has to be Dublin, no waterbase in Limerick. Cork would be great, but too expensive. Belfast is too far for the Munster ladies. I beleive there’s a waterbase in Tullamore though…
It will be interesting to see if the two that were coaxed across actually end up playing!!! Centralisation is exactly what it means you centralised to to the area of region that has a) easiest accessibility for all involved greatest opportunities for employment and thus access to facilities and resources Dublin is the only sensible solution here.
What if your job will not let you relocate, you will be discriminated against for not being able to move, or do they expect the player to give up their careers.
I think this will put hockey back for the male side of the sport.
It will put back the development of a talented group of players that have a lot of potential. The men need the same amount of money to develop.
If they are not given parity in finances they will not develop as well as they should, this will mean that they will always be ranked below the women thus ensuring that the ladies will have the lions share of the finances in the future.
While I agree that something has to change for the team to succeed and I think that the centralisation proposal is worth trying, my biggest concern is that he simply has the wrong players in the squad. The players at the moment are, for the majority, experience internationals who have consistently failed to meet the standards required – now Muller will take them all and effectively create a closed squad for the next two years, meaning no chance of selection for new/exciting/talented players.
I wish them the best of luck but feel that unless the personnel changes, results are unlikely to.
Personnel changes to be made.I don’t believe that a panel has been drawn up at this stage for Centralisation or even if it will go ahead.I notice from the original report that the existing squad members were willing to participate.Does ANON MAY 21ST invisage a new broom approach or selective pruning and if so how many.Picking 16/18 players for tournaments goal/def/mid/for/can be a balancing act and if the coach has a particular vision,or plan it may be difficult to surplant new/exciting/talented players into an existing structure.
The panel has been drawn up, it was drawn up before the qualifier, which we lost.
Not all the squad members want to but know that if they do not and they stay in their jobs or stay at their home universty their places are in danger.
But again what happens to these kids if they loose form or drop out, or they also fail their exams and have to leave their course.
The change in personel is not really with the players it is with the management.
Vision, I think that is really lacking with the management of the senior ladies and with the I.H.A..
Plus again if the ladies tyake ALL THE POT OF MONEY WHICH THEY ARE GOING TO DO, IT WILL REALLY HOLD BACK THE MEN, or is now that the sports council and sponsors tell the I.H.A. what to do.
In my opinion and I have been involved hockey a long time and looking at the two sides of the game, the men have more talent and better prospects for real development so I would advocate that the men get the lions share for the development of a most talented group of players.
I thought the ladies had more money because of ESB sponsorship? The men don’t have any sponsorship and so get less money.
Reply to BASKETBALL:
I’m not sure the coach has any vision, which is part of the problem. The squad should be made up of the best (ie in form, playing at the highest level) 20 players in the country (or abroad) at the time – regardless of age, number of caps, past performance, reputation or location. I’m sure that would include a number of those already in the squad, but there should be an open mind.
Clean slate, back to the drawing board, pick your best players and go from there. Not stick with those who have tried and failed.
Anon may 22nd indicates that a panel was drawn up prior to the departure to CHILE.Maybe as a result of the outcome in the qualifier their may be some scope to add or subtract to this grouping by the coach.
Anon may 31st suggests a squad (in form playing at the highest level) of 20 of home and and abroad players presumably centralised.How this would differ from what is suggested by the coach I don’t know.I imagine this would also be expensive.Again the mix of 16/18 players for tournament play is paramount.
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this is a truly offensive article..
“Hockey in Ireland, compared to other world nations, is fairly small. So the national team is essentially the vehicle for the development of players, its not just the vehicle for the expression of competence”
i can’t believe he actually said this. i have lost all respect for Gene on this.
why don’t we all just pay our club subs directly to the IHA, dissolve all league hockey and just play the odd social tournament once in a while? clearly all the coaches in Ireland, top coaches such as Ned, Andy, Mick,Dennis can’t develop a single player for you Gene? yes i know some i’ve listed are in the men’s side of the game. i don’t see Revs coming out and spouting such outrageous remarks? oh also i tell you what.. i’ve seen Revs at probably 6/7 or our club matches this year. not just in dublin either. Gene? how many games have you been to? the distain in which you hold hockey here is a disgrace. Maybe you should head back to Canada where you have most of your players in the BC region.. oh wait. since you’ve left they have won the pan ams played in an olympics and a world cup…
outrageous
It would be different if we were talking about centralizing players to New York from around the US, or centralizing to Moscow from the East Coast of Russia… but we’re talking about a country that is 300m x 200m. Seriously.
You’re a National coach, not a provincial coach.
This is the most stupid plan I have heard. It will be the death knell of the sport for Ireland.
Personally I would not let my daughter take time out and live in Dublin if she was good enough.
Playing with your club and your peer group is essential for club hockey I feel in ireland. It is club hockey that is the back bone of the sport, not Irish Hockey.
What will the Ulster players do? They may just opt out of Irish hockey completetly.
Or is this the plan just to concentrate hockey in Leinster only and let the rest of Ireland fade into oblivion.
This is what I have been worried about! Gene has taken this team as far as he can go, and now he is offending the clubs as well who have developed the players that he has selected for the last nearly 4 years… A ridiculous man. IHA here is your moment to make a difference and get rid. Time for a change is now, Centralisation is nonsense
Maybe the first thing that needs to be looked at is the coach. He says they under achieved in Chile – yes but nothing new there!! That’s 4 times out of 5 with this coach they have failed to reach their seeded position at major tournaments (Euros; Olympic Qualifier; Champions Challenge and now World Cup qualifier) and thats before you mention Celtic Cup which he is yet to win and we are seeded first!!
REit Kuper didn’t have anything like the time this coach has had with he players yet won Celtic Cups; got to seeded positions; had us in the running for qualification not out after first 2 games.
As for England – well what have their women done?
As for everyone doing more? which countries train weekly? Probably very few if any – and certainly not Scotland!!!
Would love to know where in the world the money is going to come from to fund this centralisation, we cannot fund our underage national teams….
How do the hockey public get their message across to Gene or the IHA?
Is there a process by which people from certain clubs could talk in confidence to the Board or IHA? If someone from a particular club goes public or asks for Gene’s position to be reviewed? The what happens to the international players from that club, will it be held against them towards future selections?
Girls are being asked to relocate to Dublin and put their trust in this man to develop their talents the biggest question is Why Gene? Why not someone else? Can they not develop within their province with the coach visiting once a week etc?
How about having the last weekend in each month for International sessions from 16s to 18s and Seniors. League matches played in all other weeks and those ones saved for International training camps, which could be shared around the provinces etc! Hockey clubs not playing matches could train or watch Irish sessions.
Problem solved!
So, any person with the ambition and talent to play senior Irish hockey in the future, will only achieve this if they are willing to transfer their LIFE to Dublin.
This would render the IHL pointless on the ladies side. I imagine all the players would have to play with a club in Dublin therefore making all sides in Munster and Ulster far less competitive. Also I believe the main reason for the IHL was to have the best from each province playing more competitive matches. If they however end up joining 1 or 2 clubs in Dublin this means less competitive games. This is all under the assumption that the players in the Irish set up are indeed the best in Ireland.
We should really talk about the facts we all know that it takes time to develop teams structures and ways of playing! It’s not different at school, club, interprovincial, national or international level. Any coach has a vision an idea about where he wants to go and where he wants his team to go at the moment maybe the Irish team aren’t where they should be. I think if you listen to Gene’s interview and comments this is the truth! So hence centralisation a concept never attempted before which will run for a relatively short period from October. I too am frustrated with recent results no doubt but I’m willing to look forward! When was the last time we qualified for a major international tournament on the women’s side! I mean qualified not hosted! I would much prefer to see Ireland play in an olympics than win a celtic cup, World Cup Qualifier tournament. The focus must be about next years Europeans and closing the gap and if it takes this I’m willing to give it a try! We should all be willing to give it a try, people are talking about all the money gone into the program etc and I agree but what purpose would a change bring now! I think a more important question that we all seem to be missing is that everything in Irish hockey at the moment is geared towards 2012 but what about after that! Where is the pathway after that I think we’ve lost sight of the fact that we are completely engrossed in whether he is or isn’t the right man or if he is or isn’t doing the right thing’s. As a hockey community we should be preparing ourselves and Irish hockey the two certainties that lie ahead a) Where or what happens if we do not make the olympics b) What happens if we do! We’ve committed our selves and Irish hockey completely to 2012 there is no point now jumping ship we must make sure we give ourselves every opportunity to achieve the dream! Otherwise failure to do so could have devastating impact on Irish hockey into the future
Ireland need to qualify for the Olympics, it would do the sport no end of good. I think Mullers plan makes sense. Ireland being a part of 2012 will boost the grass roots level, because no world cup, or European championships will ever get the coverage the Olympics will get, and exposure and television coverage of the game is vital. Young players see where they could potentially end up if they continue playing the sport, and those who have never watched a game could be turned on to it, there is nothing like Olympic success to boost a sport.
Ireland have a great team. They played a stormer against Australia. Scotland may not train weekly, but we shouldn’t be aiming for Scotland’s level (no offence to the Scots!). The other teams in Europe have professional players, you just can’t compare, if Ireland have any realistic chance, they need this plan. I think the players should be encouraged to do this, like Muller said, this is the golden oppurtunity of a life time, not just for the athletes involved, but for the future of Irish hockey.
What happens if we don’t make the Olympics? I agree that this would make the IHL useless. The IHA have done a good thing with the IHL and now they are planning on taking away the internationals from the clubs and therefore reducing the standard. Insane I say.
Scotlands squad is more or less centralised. Two players live 1hr 3/4 drive away with the rest all less than 40 min drive. They have training together one night every wk and their wkene sessions would be as frequent as the Irish girls. Gene is doing great job and has picked right players. The players need to start performing at the levels they have shown they can perform at consistently. If that happens 2012 here we come
Small anon says above: “We’ve committed our selves and Irish hockey completely to 2012 there is no point now jumping ship we must make sure we give ourselves every opportunity to achieve the dream! Otherwise failure to do so could have devastating impact on Irish hockey into the future.”
Does this mean you are one of the girls involved or a branch member or IHA member? Do they control you? Or are you an onlooker, watching from the sidelines saying this is the right thing to do for these girls to do, take two years out of their lives and relocate to Dublin to work within a substandard coaching structure, within which they have underperformed for nearly 4 years. Im failing to see how you are coming to your conclusions?
What would you do if you were one of the girls?
The dream, who is having this dream. Ask most coaches in Ireland if they think that the ladies will qualify, and you will get a shake of the head. The answer is based on that the current squad is limited, lacks real flair and has no world class players.
No matter how much money is spent they will not qualify.
This will have a devistating effect on the sport, schools will not take the game seriously, coaches WILL NOT go that extra mile to help a player and then have the player taken off them to play in Dublin.
What happens to the player if the coach says they are not good enough, they have possibly changed jobs, or university and then in this ruthless world you are told ‘on your bike, your out’.
They may not then want to stay in Dublin or play in that league, will the universities let them change if they are dropped from the squad.
This move is just playing into the hands of other sports who will now rub their hands with glee and start to take young players out of the game.
this is ridicules! what about the players form cork or the north who will have to uproot their lives and college/jobs to move to Dublin?! has anyone asked the players about how they feel about this? What will Eimear Cregan do? for example she is a teacher in laurel hill, coaches the senior A side and plays with Cath Inst?
will this mean all the Dublin clubs will get all of the internationals?
WHO HAS GIVEN GENE PERMISSION TO CENTRALISE THE WOMENS PROGRAMME?
Has this been given the green light by the borad? Or the High Performance Director, who has the final say on the direction that these people coaching with irish teams do?
I would be fairly confident stating that the Girls outside of Dublin are being railroaded into this, how can they say no? If they do they are as much as out! I believe one player from the north is not going to centralise. How many minutes did she get in Chile at the WCQ? Answer 0, as she was not selected, over 60 caps less than 25 years of age! I find it Very surprising she was not included!!!!!!!!
I would love a chance to be part of this centralization plan.
What is so wrong with people and change? The way it is now, its not working, lets change it and see if it works…than you can all tell Gene you told him so and kick him to the curb. More intensive hockey is needed for anyone who intends on playing international senior hockey. The likes of Eimear Cregan Julia O’Halloran have played how many league matches compared to a non international player in Munster this year? They spend any time not playing with their club(which is a lot)away at training weekends with the Irish team. So if our leagues are carrying on without them, and lets face it, division 1 has become more competitive as the big clubs no longer have their internationals what is the problem? Are we not enjoying the hockey on our own doorstep that we have to complain about the Irish team. Its so far out of our reach we’re better off forgetting about it and forming our own international team down here in Munster. None of the giving out about gives any credit to any of the players that put in so much effort. They choose instead to degrade and put down what hard work the players have put in. Its a shame credit isn’t given when it its due, even if it is only a small tiny bit.
Yeah, I think if Ireland really wants to compete internationally more intensive hockey is the way. A successful international team can only do the sport good at every level.
To who allowed this: there were a couple of players in the squad in chile that won’t be able to centralise. It is silly to say that the northern player was dropped because gene knows she can’t centralise nxt yr. He understands that it is impossible for some pple to relocate and that he won’t ignore them for selection. He did say that the pple that don’t relocate will be at a natural disadvantage and obviously so. If the whole aim of centralization is to go that extra yard with the team and make it better then naturally the people that don’t will fall behind development wise.
Why not give it a go! This is what Gene was hired to do. His whole focus over last two years has been to qualify for 2012, anything else was a bonus. If we dont qualify, then fair enough give the guy a hard time.
I also don’t think its fair for people to be giving out on behalf of the Munster players in particular. Has anyone spoken to the girls involved? If anyone took the time to listen to these girls they all want and are happy to make this commitment. Some of them have given years to this sport and this is their big opportunity to really go for it and qualify for a major tournament. And for once we’ll be on a level playing field to other countries in terms of preparation.
Gene isn’t forcing anyone to move anywhere. The squad fully supports his idea. Do people really think Gene goes shooting his mouth off without discussing everything with the team and the IHA.
If this centralisation causes major problems for some players he is more than willing to work with and around peoples lives, he understands fully this is a massive uprooting.
Lets give the girls the support they deserve. Fair enough the results were poor in Chile but I’m sure no one is more disappointed the the girls themselves after all their hard work.
Worried X 3 – I believe my statements are quiet clear! I believe Irish Hockey has failed to plan past 2012! So therefore I believe we must take every measure to ensure Irish Hockey puts itself in the best possible position to qualify for the olympics! As I have already said the impact of success and failure will affect the sport either way and in a massive fashion! Where do you think all the funding has come in recent years, and those supporting Irish hockey will want to see a return on their investment! This is the bigger picture (funding), player’s always come and go, coach’s do as well, structures change but opportunities such as the one upon us have to be seized! Will centralisation work who know’s we are all guessing! Why not take a moment to look at the bigger pic a short term sacrifice by player’s, club’s etc compared to the long term benefit’s to Irish hockey why not take the risk nothing ventured nothing gained! Player’s like any individual should and will make their decision’s based on what is right or wrong for them and their circumstance’s and this should be enough for anyone if players want to do it let them make the commitment don’t stand in their way or belittle their choice or the program for it and if other’s choose not to they have their own reason’s and should not be used as weapon’s to knock something we’ve never attempted before. Let’s take the risk, let’s get behind it as a former player an opportunity to be a professional at hockey which is essentially an amateur sport would for me be to good an opportunity to miss out on!
Ireland A Player!
There are a couple of problems with the Centralisation proposal:
1) You say you would love to be part of it, therefore there is already a vaccum to Dublin from the other provinces, i.e. our best talent is being dragged to Dublin, further deminishing the Munster League, Cups, IHL, ISC chances etc.
2) Where is the development structure for the rest of Ireland, if 24-26 athletes are centralised. What happens to YOU if you have the best season ever next term and people are calling for YOU to be brought into the programme? How does that happen, Gene has invested money (and the ESBs and Sports Councils) into the program, how can he afford to bring you to Dublin. SIMPLY he CANNOT. So it is effectively a closed shop for a period of 2 years, meaning that some players will miss out on a chance to progress into this squad. E.g. Australia had an 18 year old playing at WCQ, that will not happen for Ireland in the next 2 years, so there is no chance of the best Munster talent like Naomi Carroll or Roisin Upton being looked at as exciting young Munster talent in that timeframe, which I believe is a shame. Neither is there a chance that you will enter the programme in that window. Because you are from MUNSTER and they cannot afford to put you in. Leinster is different, they can come in as they live there and would be invited to be part of the group.
3) Gene mentions about the improved performance of the group against Chilie and Australia. He even mentions that they were in the ascendency against Australia after half time before the PS. I’m wondering was he even watching the same game I was? Australia looked sharper and stronger and thats the major difference. Ireland looked devoid of ideas in the 25, and only got PCs from crash balls in and mistraps, so how does that equates to ascendency?
4) I really hope someone questions this whole process at the AGM, or perhaps an EGM should be called. There are too many problems with the proposal, and too many stand to lose from it. E.g. The increased cost to the participants in the underage programs from the money all being invested into this program. The lack of a pathway of development for these players into the senior program for 2 years. No regional development sessions for 2 years, non Leinster clubs lack of access to their top players who act as a vehicle for development for the younger players in training / games. The turning upside down the girls lives whom are involved in the programme.
IHA WAKE UP
If I was good enough to play for Ireland, and had to relocate for Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I would expext the I.H.A. to pay the difference that would occur in my wages, lifes expenses still have to be paid and I have had to take a pay cut, so someone will have to pay and even if I play on saturday I can get over time and the same on Saturday.
Or is it that we will take only students into this program, the cheap people the ones always available.
I think there are some well made points in this debate.
A shame those of you who have complaints did not come forward at the Munster AGM to propose that Munster would question what was going on? There was a perfect chance to ask the branch to do it at the AGM and nobody did because, as IHA Wake up says ”I really hope someone questions this whole process at the AGM, or perhaps an EGM should be called”. Really hoping won’t achieve much.
Will any of the people on this blog or their clubs actually attend the IHA AGM to ask these questions? I doubt it, why bother when you can log on here and have a bitch, but in reality do nothing about it. All talk if you ask me.
I cannot afford to go to Dublin to attend a meeting. I have been to these meetings before and its a done deal.
Also has anyone asked how all this will disrupt the other squads that we have especially the senior men who probably will have their budget cut even more to fund this folly. I actually think this is already in place and the meeting does not matter. But the efeect on the whole of Irish hockey will be seen as the other squads suffer and players leave the game. This is really putting all our eggs in one basket and hoping big time that we get really lucky and some of the bigger nations boycott the tournamant for some reason or another.
If this fails and it is highly likely to what will be the state of the sport and will the Irish Sports Council ever give hockey any funding in the future.
hoping big time that we get really lucky and some of the bigger nations boycott the tournamant for some reason or another
Ireland don’t need the ‘bigger nations’ to boycott. We came 5th in Europe last euro champs, no reason, with the intensive training, why Ireland can’t qualify, and do well.
If it is a done deal, then it’s time to support the girls and Muller all the way.
I can understand the long term outlook that people can see with disruption to club hockey etc. but I think it’s worth a shot for the next couple of years pre-2012 qualifying. If we make it to London, it will be a massive boost to the game – when was the last time we qualified?? Look at what happened with the cricketers after they did well in the World Cup. Massive boost to their game with the exposure that followed – we need to do what we can to get similar opportunity for hockey by competing in the Olympics…. especially in London with games on in our timezone & massive TV coverage. Great opportunity to showcase our sport to kids..
Definition of insanity is repeating the same action & expecting a different result. What’s the point in continuing with current modus operandi? We haven’t qualified in years for any of the major tournaments. We don’t have the money to give the squad full time contracts & this is one way to increase the number of sessions the squad have together. I don’t think it’s realistic to ask players from Cork or Belfast to travel to Dublin 2 or 3 times a week for sessions, makes sense to have them relatively close to where the sessions are held..
As someone pointed out in this thread, maybe we don’t have the right coach or the right players but it’s worth a shot for a couple of years.
It’s not the end of the world to try this for a couple of years for the clubs… the biggest impact is to the players affected – let them decide if it’s a runner. I think the men should try this as well…
It’s easy to criticise the IHA & coaching set-up but it’s time to try something different – has anyone any other ideas that could be tried considering our current financial limitations?? We have a massive opportunity on our doorstep, would be a disaster if it’s wasted…
Lot of people on here saying what is the difference, just try it and see what happens. You are missing the point, the system in place currently is much better than the system Riet had but GENE is not getting results at present with more resources than Riet. So why give Gene this extra time.
Solution: Gene out, better coach in.
I made the point above, How about having the last weekend in each month for International sessions from 16s to 18s and Seniors. League matches played in all other weeks and those ones saved for International training camps, which could be shared around the provinces etc! Hockey clubs not playing matches could train or watch Irish sessions.
What do people think of that?
The men are sensible they will not try it.
But their budget will be terrible affected.
This cut is likely to hold back the development of a young squad that has more chance of producing a world class player that may make the difference in a tight tournament.
It would be interesting to get a look at the total amount each senior squad has spent over the last few years.
It would not surprise me to find that the ladies squad have had by far the biggest share without having brought home many titles or appearances in finals.
Worried X2 – I think you’ve missed the point! This is not about a permanent solution, this is an approach available to the current management to try and reach the next level! It’s impact on Irish hockey will certainly be disruptive but considering what we have already invested and potential overall gain to the sport. I see no reason why we should not go for it! There is no point to comparing coach’s past or present, as it can be easily be applied to player’s as well. Your idea of alternative weekends is a fine solution for underage set-ups but in term’s of national I believe it’s not the option here! The gap must be closed in term’s of player development look at the forth coming european club championships for women, – ireland have no team competing in the top tier while other nations we believe we are as good as have club side’s in the competition Spain (2) Scotland (1) UKraine (1) Azerbaijan (1) Russian (1) We only have one team in the trophy Loreto while our other representatives UCD are in challenge 1. So it quiet obvious even within our Irish Club structures we may have not reached the highest level yet in terms of European hockey. There is a significant gap and in order to close it and be as best prepared for next year’s European’s having a centralised program make sense!
Worried x 2 – can you tell me Riet’s best finish in a Europeans during her tenure? Check your facts before making a comparison between Gene and Riet.
Yes the girls qualified for a World Cup, by total luck – a penalty shoot out where the opposition didn’t turn up, great way to qualify.
The facts are that Gene has finished higher in Europe than Riet ever did, and with a vastly younger squad, who are gaining experience all the time. Yes recent results haven’t been great but at least he’s trying to address it. From my understanding the players themselves want this, so it’s their choice as much as it is Gene’s. If they thought it wasn’t a good idea, then why would they want to do it?
I’m not defending his recent record or the fact that he has never seen a Munster league game, but just making the point that throwing up comments that aren’t true, doesn’t help the debate.
I think that this idea is crazy when the IHA obviously don’t have the money and taking the money from other squads that will be forced to pay around €300 a year to play for their country is stupid it will make our sport too elite and will prevent very talented but not so well off players from participating at high levels!
If Passmore as High Performance director cannot stop this venture and do what is best for our sport then maybe we should be looking for his job as well as Genes
IHA archives no 3 4th of march note from D.Passmore indicates after feasability studies and consultation with stakeholders that if finances are available from ISC and NIS then possibly all systems go. It seems unusual that the announcement to Centralise did not come from the High Performance Director.Gratifying that Mr Muller acknowledges the main sponsors ESB are “interested and absorbed with the teams process,and part of the drive for success is to see these peoples investment pay off”. Could we possibly see some input from the main sponsor in bolstering the coaching element????to protect their investment.
Is the ESB a ladies or Mens sponsor, the ladies, if we see decisions decided upon what the sponsor and to improve their profile, we are going down a dangerous road.
Reply to Hmmm
Maybe you should check your facts before you make sweeping statements. The facts are gene has not finished higher at a Europeans than Gene. RIET led the team to 5th at the Euros A Division in 2005. Results and Final Standings here: http://www.eurohockey.org/archive/nationscup_senior/2005_w_natcup_abc.pdf
She finished 5th, having missed out on qualification for the semis on Goal difference, the team was much closer to Spain and Holland than they are under Gene’s tenure (in terms of goals and results). Back then we never lost to Scotland either. It is Gene’s choice to have a young squad, there are plenty players in the 24-30 age bracket available to Gene which HE CHOOSES not to select. So the with a significantly younger squad does not wash. With international sides you select your best, whilst also preparing for the future, perhaps this balance has been lost under Gene.
You also mention that under Riet the girls qualified for a world cup on penalty strokes, where the other team didnt turn up and relate that to luck. Did you see the games at the euros last year where gene finished 5th? To say ireland were not LUCKY to finish 5th last year with the performances they had at that tournament in Holland, would be stretching the truth. That was the luckiest thing that has happened Gene so far in his tenure.
Have you spoken to the girls who stand to be centralised? Do you know for fact that they want to go? Or if they had a choice in the matter and it would not negatively effect their chances of still being selected, would they still go? Leave their home clubs, families, social circle, support network, when they did not have to? Or if they were facilitated regionally.
After responding to your comment, I know that your facts are not right, so why should anyone believe anything you say. My facts are 100%
Why centralise in Dublin ? The costs up there are the highest and you spend all day in traffic (if not clamped in Belfield do we have to pay for them too?) Why not bring the girls to Limerick with all the centres of sporting excelence there ? (and Dave Passmore would save on his travel) or too the real capital (with UCC and C of I pitches) ? Much cheaper doctor & dentist bills than in Belfield – http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0512/health.html
Seriously though – why Dublin ? why not Belfast, Limerick or Cork ?
Centralization or no centralization ireland will NOT qualify for an olympics. They are simply not talented enough and gene has done the best he cud do with the lot he has. They can’t even beat Scotland whose squad will only have about 3 players on the gb squad that will play in the olympics. It was pure luck that they finished 5th in the Europeans and the world ranking of 15th is so untrue . They should be somewhere like 25th. The wcq in chile they came joint last out of five teams but u cud say 3rd also. . Aus 12pts scot 9pts ire chile and Malaysia all on 3 pts
I really hate that I have to keep saying this, but can people please exercise some restraint when posting comments? Discussing the centralisation concept is fine but some people have gone way too far overboard with personal comments.
It has made this thread a nightmare to moderate, especially at a time where I have college finals to be concentrating on, and my phone hasn’t stopped hopping. Please keep it general from now on, across the board.
Alan good is a gobshite. Is that restrained enough?!?! Ha I joke….
It’s still less costly to centralise in Dublin. If you were to centralise in cork for eg it would mean uprooting the entire squad to move bar the 3 cork players. Centralizing in dub means far less players are moved. Fair point to make tho.
Interesting point regarding the Scottish GB players. I wonder how many Irish players would be good enough to make that squad? On the men’s side, at least 2 have been coaxed across. I cna’t see 2 of ours making the GB women’s team, so perhaps Scotland have improved a lot over the past few years?
If we do centralise it has to be Dublin, no waterbase in Limerick. Cork would be great, but too expensive. Belfast is too far for the Munster ladies. I beleive there’s a waterbase in Tullamore though…
It will be interesting to see if the two that were coaxed across actually end up playing!!! Centralisation is exactly what it means you centralised to to the area of region that has a) easiest accessibility for all involved greatest opportunities for employment and thus access to facilities and resources Dublin is the only sensible solution here.
What if your job will not let you relocate, you will be discriminated against for not being able to move, or do they expect the player to give up their careers.
I think this will put hockey back for the male side of the sport.
It will put back the development of a talented group of players that have a lot of potential. The men need the same amount of money to develop.
If they are not given parity in finances they will not develop as well as they should, this will mean that they will always be ranked below the women thus ensuring that the ladies will have the lions share of the finances in the future.
While I agree that something has to change for the team to succeed and I think that the centralisation proposal is worth trying, my biggest concern is that he simply has the wrong players in the squad. The players at the moment are, for the majority, experience internationals who have consistently failed to meet the standards required – now Muller will take them all and effectively create a closed squad for the next two years, meaning no chance of selection for new/exciting/talented players.
I wish them the best of luck but feel that unless the personnel changes, results are unlikely to.
Personnel changes to be made.I don’t believe that a panel has been drawn up at this stage for Centralisation or even if it will go ahead.I notice from the original report that the existing squad members were willing to participate.Does ANON MAY 21ST invisage a new broom approach or selective pruning and if so how many.Picking 16/18 players for tournaments goal/def/mid/for/can be a balancing act and if the coach has a particular vision,or plan it may be difficult to surplant new/exciting/talented players into an existing structure.
The panel has been drawn up, it was drawn up before the qualifier, which we lost.
Not all the squad members want to but know that if they do not and they stay in their jobs or stay at their home universty their places are in danger.
But again what happens to these kids if they loose form or drop out, or they also fail their exams and have to leave their course.
The change in personel is not really with the players it is with the management.
Vision, I think that is really lacking with the management of the senior ladies and with the I.H.A..
Plus again if the ladies tyake ALL THE POT OF MONEY WHICH THEY ARE GOING TO DO, IT WILL REALLY HOLD BACK THE MEN, or is now that the sports council and sponsors tell the I.H.A. what to do.
In my opinion and I have been involved hockey a long time and looking at the two sides of the game, the men have more talent and better prospects for real development so I would advocate that the men get the lions share for the development of a most talented group of players.
I thought the ladies had more money because of ESB sponsorship? The men don’t have any sponsorship and so get less money.
Reply to BASKETBALL:
I’m not sure the coach has any vision, which is part of the problem. The squad should be made up of the best (ie in form, playing at the highest level) 20 players in the country (or abroad) at the time – regardless of age, number of caps, past performance, reputation or location. I’m sure that would include a number of those already in the squad, but there should be an open mind.
Clean slate, back to the drawing board, pick your best players and go from there. Not stick with those who have tried and failed.
Anon may 22nd indicates that a panel was drawn up prior to the departure to CHILE.Maybe as a result of the outcome in the qualifier their may be some scope to add or subtract to this grouping by the coach.
Anon may 31st suggests a squad (in form playing at the highest level) of 20 of home and and abroad players presumably centralised.How this would differ from what is suggested by the coach I don’t know.I imagine this would also be expensive.Again the mix of 16/18 players for tournament play is paramount.