I write as a parent (of five children who all play club hockey), a club coach and administrator, a supporter of Irish Hockey and as someone who has studied and lectures in sport science and coaching, whilst formerly working for Irish Hockey for seven years. In writing this letter I reflect my own personal observations and thoughts, and not those as a representative of a club or any other organisation. My thoughts are based on 10 years of working with Irish players of all ages in various settings whilst also having coached and worked at club level in England. As such I would ask you read with an open mind and if you disagree with one part, don’t stop reading.
Through my recent involvement with a Dublin club I have seen how the scheduling of matches has grossly impacted on the development of its youngest and most talented players. Two of our U21s, good enough to go to Spain with the senior men could, if they had not ended up injured, have played 17 matches in the period of a month in January/February.
This includes three senior international matches in Spain, immediately followed by five club matches in eight days, which was part of three double-header provincial club weekends, along with U21 Interprovincial training. This culminated in six matches in eight days through the U21 interprovincials and Four Nations. Regrettably, despite resting them from some club commitments, both were injured and unable to complete the Four Nations in Mossley; I understand there were numerous other players unable to finish that tournament through injury.
Seventeen matches in a month when the rest of Europe are playing indoor hockey or resting their players, with some of the worst weather I have ever experienced – how do you get quality in those conditions!?
At the club there were other players injured during this period, another U21 whose injury was attributed by one of our top physios to ‘over playing.’ . In other situations you see 15-18 year olds being forced to play for two teams at cup level – junior and senior, often on the same day. How does this best serve their interests and development? If they are good enough to play seniors, should they be allowed to play juniors as well?
Many young players also desire and aspire to play top club hockey, but school matches are held in some areas on Saturdays thus making this aspect difficult. When do school players do their physical development? Why, if they play club hockey, should they have to do so immediately after a school match? This does not exist in all provinces, yet the school hockey takes on equal importance to the players that I have spoken to. We have some great teachers and coaches working in our schools who would agree that there should be no senior school hockey on Saturdays once players are 15. We mustn’t forget they have academic commitments too. The Saturday matches often prevents their teachers playing club hockey too if a match is scheduled early.
At a boys U18 training camp in a February few years ago, I did a survey of the number of matches the lads had played in the few weeks prior. There were a number of boys there, mostly carrying injuries who had played as many as 10 matches in 14 days! Where was the time for recovery and the regeneration of their bodies? Why were they put into these situations where to not play all those matches was to say ‘no’ to someone, a coach or teacher who they wanted to work for?
I use the above by way of illustration, but you see the same thing happening to players who are not in any international or provincial team, but are strong 1st XI players. It is not confined to our elite players but all our Senior 1 / Premier players, whether IHL on non-IHL – we play too much hockey often crammed into short periods of time. Where is the fun or pleasure in playing all your hockey in a condensed period of time, often on double weekends while finishing a league in February? Or in previous years without a backended season, having many vacant weeks where no momentum can be built? This is the reality for non-IHL clubs in the top division in their province. Good young coaches are also getting burnt out too so we lose them just as they are at their best.
Many of you will have been against decisions Irish Hockey took when I was high performance director. The introduction of CPP (women) and encouraging many of our men’s team to go and play in Europe. for example. In many respects I understood and agreed with the issues raised, but had to focus at the rationale for these decisions, knowing that the players desired to be successful at international level.
The men’s players playing abroad did so for clubs who played 20-22 matches maximum per season, largely all highly competitive with good recovery time between matches, and with a winter break. The women’s squad largely supported the decision for the Central Preparation Programme and were involved in its design and planning….why? Both wanted to compete in an Olympics, which if they had achieved, would have transformed the popularity and profile of our great sport beyond belief – just look at cricket!.
A good part of the rationale for having to take this path was that they knew the league and competition structure asked too much of them, compromised them, impacted recovery and often lacked the frequent quality of matches. Look at each of the provincial leagues (men and women) and most have a few teams at the top who are significantly ahead of those at the bottom with scorelines of 9-0, 10-0…. Who does this serve best? How motivating is it to be in one of those top teams, or lower teams knowing that on several weeks per season it’s ‘keep it under double figures!’. How does this serve the young players in these clubs aiming to develop?
One of the rationale’s behind the removal of the Irish U21s was to prevent the best young talent being compromised by playing both U21s and seniors –I was delighted when we reintroduced the U21s but look at what has just happened. Over the past two weeks our U21s entered the final match of a tournament with 13 fit players, several who had also played for the seniors while injured. Look at how many young players are again doubling up immediately after playing a large volume of club matches. I don’t envy the task of fixture secretaries/committees at provincial or national level, especially with the late notice by the FIH of tournament dates/venues. How do you fit a large ball into a small hole? There is just too much hockey. We added an IHL, what did we take away?
So, the reason for putting pen to paper is that there are only two ways to move on. Either introduce a full IHL where there are a smaller number of high quality of matches, around which quality national programmes can be fitted so there is no longer a need for players to ‘have’ to go to Europe or for systems like CPP to be developed. This is what most of the players want if you speak to them – how many clubs do? If not, then the second option is to scrap the current IHL as it just adds to a highly congested calendar.
Every club has a reason to say no to the development of a full IHL, whether it’s financial, the travel or because they may not be part of its inception. I was in Spain with Muckross U16s recently. We stayed at a National Division 2 club in Valencia who did not own their pitch (yet trained 3 times per week at €75 per hour), did not have much money yet they regularly traveled 5-10 hours to away matches. The players/parents were largely responsible for the fundraising and many were students or unemployed. The critical factor as I saw it was they didn’t have numerous competitions, double header weekends etc.
If countries the size of Spain and Germany can have a national league, plus most other teams sports in Ireland, why can’t we? It won’t be easy, clubs don’t have to compete in it if they don’t want or can’t….but ask the players and I’m sure most will. It will also allow those weaker Division 1/Premier clubs to develop and have something to aspire towards.
Let’s not put obstacles in the way and seek reasons to block progress but seek out solutions and ways around the challenges faced.
This includes three senior international matches in Spain, immediately followed by five club matches in eight days, which was part of three double-header provincial club weekends, along with U21 Interprovincial training. This culminated in six matches in eight days through the U21 interprovincials and Four Nations. Regrettably, despite resting them from some club commitments, both were injured and unable to complete the Four Nations in Mossley; I understand there were numerous other players unable to finish that tournament through injury.
Seventeen matches in a month when the rest of Europe are playing indoor hockey or resting their players, with some of the worst weather I have ever experienced – how do you get quality in those conditions!?
At the club there were other players injured during this period, another U21 whose injury was attributed by one of our top physios to ‘over playing.’ . In other situations you see 15-18 year olds being forced to play for two teams at cup level – junior and senior, often on the same day. How does this best serve their interests and development? If they are good enough to play seniors, should they be allowed to play juniors as well?
Many young players also desire and aspire to play top club hockey, but school matches are held in some areas on Saturdays thus making this aspect difficult. When do school players do their physical development? Why, if they play club hockey, should they have to do so immediately after a school match? This does not exist in all provinces, yet the school hockey takes on equal importance to the players that I have spoken to. We have some great teachers and coaches working in our schools who would agree that there should be no senior school hockey on Saturdays once players are 15. We mustn’t forget they have academic commitments too. The Saturday matches often prevents their teachers playing club hockey too if a match is scheduled early.
At a boys U18 training camp in a February few years ago, I did a survey of the number of matches the lads had played in the few weeks prior. There were a number of boys there, mostly carrying injuries who had played as many as 10 matches in 14 days! Where was the time for recovery and the regeneration of their bodies? Why were they put into these situations where to not play all those matches was to say ‘no’ to someone, a coach or teacher who they wanted to work for?
I use the above by way of illustration, but you see the same thing happening to players who are not in any international or provincial team, but are strong 1st XI players. It is not confined to our elite players but all our Senior 1 / Premier players, whether IHL on non-IHL – we play too much hockey often crammed into short periods of time. Where is the fun or pleasure in playing all your hockey in a condensed period of time, often on double weekends while finishing a league in February? Or in previous years without a backended season, having many vacant weeks where no momentum can be built? This is the reality for non-IHL clubs in the top division in their province. Good young coaches are also getting burnt out too so we lose them just as they are at their best.
Many of you will have been against decisions Irish Hockey took when I was high performance director. The introduction of CPP (women) and encouraging many of our men’s team to go and play in Europe. for example. In many respects I understood and agreed with the issues raised, but had to focus at the rationale for these decisions, knowing that the players desired to be successful at international level.
The men’s players playing abroad did so for clubs who played 20-22 matches maximum per season, largely all highly competitive with good recovery time between matches, and with a winter break. The women’s squad largely supported the decision for the Central Preparation Programme and were involved in its design and planning….why? Both wanted to compete in an Olympics, which if they had achieved, would have transformed the popularity and profile of our great sport beyond belief – just look at cricket!.
A good part of the rationale for having to take this path was that they knew the league and competition structure asked too much of them, compromised them, impacted recovery and often lacked the frequent quality of matches. Look at each of the provincial leagues (men and women) and most have a few teams at the top who are significantly ahead of those at the bottom with scorelines of 9-0, 10-0…. Who does this serve best? How motivating is it to be in one of those top teams, or lower teams knowing that on several weeks per season it’s ‘keep it under double figures!’. How does this serve the young players in these clubs aiming to develop?
One of the rationale’s behind the removal of the Irish U21s was to prevent the best young talent being compromised by playing both U21s and seniors –I was delighted when we reintroduced the U21s but look at what has just happened. Over the past two weeks our U21s entered the final match of a tournament with 13 fit players, several who had also played for the seniors while injured. Look at how many young players are again doubling up immediately after playing a large volume of club matches. I don’t envy the task of fixture secretaries/committees at provincial or national level, especially with the late notice by the FIH of tournament dates/venues. How do you fit a large ball into a small hole? There is just too much hockey. We added an IHL, what did we take away?
So, the reason for putting pen to paper is that there are only two ways to move on. Either introduce a full IHL where there are a smaller number of high quality of matches, around which quality national programmes can be fitted so there is no longer a need for players to ‘have’ to go to Europe or for systems like CPP to be developed. This is what most of the players want if you speak to them – how many clubs do? If not, then the second option is to scrap the current IHL as it just adds to a highly congested calendar.
Every club has a reason to say no to the development of a full IHL, whether it’s financial, the travel or because they may not be part of its inception. I was in Spain with Muckross U16s recently. We stayed at a National Division 2 club in Valencia who did not own their pitch (yet trained 3 times per week at €75 per hour), did not have much money yet they regularly traveled 5-10 hours to away matches. The players/parents were largely responsible for the fundraising and many were students or unemployed. The critical factor as I saw it was they didn’t have numerous competitions, double header weekends etc.
If countries the size of Spain and Germany can have a national league, plus most other teams sports in Ireland, why can’t we? It won’t be easy, clubs don’t have to compete in it if they don’t want or can’t….but ask the players and I’m sure most will. It will also allow those weaker Division 1/Premier clubs to develop and have something to aspire towards.
Let’s not put obstacles in the way and seek reasons to block progress but seek out solutions and ways around the challenges faced.
Once again Dave uses excuses re: young players to promote the National team interests. IHA is ONLY about the National team and is gradually eroding the club system …..’around which quality national
programmes can be fitted’
I am also assuming the players he spoke to were Munster based. Have spoken to a lot of players from Lenister and Ulster over the past month and not sure the IHL sentiments are shared around the island
I felt compelled to put my comments in regarding the above article and address some of Dave’s comments. I would hate people to think that all this that he is saying is factually correct. I have to state that I am not adverse to the IHL proposal but am getting sick of hidden agendas being disguised as facts.
“Through my recent involvement with a Dublin club I have seen how the scheduling of matches has grossly impacted on the development of its youngest and most talented players” – One of the reasons these players have played so much is the desire of Irish Hockey to get the domestic programme finished by the end of Feb, to start the IHL in March in order to facilitate the National team competing in April in the CC. Again an example of the minority dictating to the majority how things should be.
“A good part of the rationale for having to take this path was that they knew the league and competition structure asked too much of them, compromised them, impacted recovery and often lacked the frequent quality of matches” – This is untrue. The migration was due to the fact that young guys could now make some money playing their hockey abroad for a few years whilst the economy and job situation in Ireland was extremely lax. This was the sole driver for the guys that I know who went abroad during this period.
“If countries the size of Spain and Germany can have a national league, plus most other teams sports in Ireland, why can’t we? ” My two good friends play or coach in Germany. One of them has a budget of 400,000 euros for the womens 1st team and the other flies to away matches with his team…all expenses paid. Neither have ever made EHL. They are incomparable. RC Polos junior club fees are 790euro per year. This again isnt comparable to any club in Ireland.
This is what most of the players want if you speak to them – Another classic Passmore statement. How many have you spoken to David. Please don’t make it that you have spoken to most of the players in Irish hockey. You havent.
Very good article. Whatever system we adopt, what we are doing now is not sustainable.
Good letter Dave David Passmore. I agree with you fully, coming from a schools, club and ex Interprovincial coaching point of view. Just look at March for fixtures to see what difficult position clubs and by extension their players could be put into – 5 IHL games (3 away), plus IJC Q/F and S/F, plus somehow trying to finish off Domestic Leagues and Cups as they “…must be finished by end of March…” according to branch rulings! Add to this final rounds of Schools cup / plate / league competitions so All Ireland Qualification can be ranked for Kate Russel competition.
Great article by Dave Passmore and I totally agree with what he says. I am a currently a 1st XI player at Lisnagarvey HC and I am involved with the Irish Men’s Senior team. I have played hockey both in Munster and currently I am playing here in Ulster so I have a pretty good experience of both provincial leagues and how they are run. The Munster League is a poor standard and the Ulster league isn’t much better with a big gap between top 5 and bottom 5. The past two seasons I have played hockey professionally abroad in Europe both in Belgium and Germany. They both have a national league set up and it is fantastic. The way the league was run in Germany was incredible and something that I can’t speak highly enough of. It required a lot more travel than a full IHL would in Ireland and it also costed a lot more. We had many away games in Hamburg (4 hours) and Berlin (7/8 hours). The players etc never complained it was just a way of life and travelling wasn’t an issue and yes we had players who were 27/28 with full time jobs and families but they worked around it. The cost factor is minimal for me as it is an extra 2/3 more trips to Dublin and a extra night in Cork. For example, the way a Hamburg trip which is the same distance as a Cork trip worked was you would play one of the Hamburg teams on a Saturday at 5pm and then the second on a Sunday at 12pm. It would mean you only spent one night in a hotel (reducing costs). Regarding the players that I have spoken to in Cork, Dublin and Belfast they want a full IHL. I have spoken to a lot and they are for this and the sooner the better. Strong leadership is required to make a full IHL a reality.
Thanks to the 40+ people who have sent positive emails, Facebook messages and supportive texts on this article over the past two days, many of them players, school teachers and coaches from across the island of Ireland. It’s sad that the positive comments rarely get aired on such blogs but as Sean Murray states – the current system has to change and in doing so my key points was listen to the players, put them first.
To ‘Roy’ and ‘Facts and Figures’ – thank you for your interest and points – it’s a pity I can’t respond to you comments directly. I am not going reply and clarify to people hiding behind pseudo names (some who then talk about hidden agendas!).
A few points of clarity:
– As highlighted at the start the comments were my own thoughts, and certainly not representing IHA/National teams – I no longer work for the IHA or coach a national team so I have no agenda other than for the sport. What I have tried to do is base my observations on the players and systems in place, having read research and listened to specialists on key aspects such as – retention in grassroots sport, burnout and long term player development – you only have to read the Coaching Ireland Pathways Report (page 10) and it highlighted back some time ago how the development of players is impacted by poor misaligned competition structures.
– You will note the suggestion that if a full IHL is not wanted then returning to regional competition and Club Champs should be considered – 5 weekends were added with the introduction of the IHL (obviously only for some players) and yet what was taken away?
– The theme for my piece was to encourage the IHA, branches and clubs to listen to the players and put them first in decision making. Rugby has IRUPA to represent their players, the GAA – a Player’s Association – perhaps we should consider the same.
– The theme for my piece was to encourage the IHA, branches, clubs, schools to listen to the players (and parents) and put them first. I certainly never indicated I had spoken to all the players.
In an ideal world the whole competition structure at all levels should be reviewed and reconsidered holistically so that each area (school, club, interpro, varsity) fits together in an aligned system and intergrated to best serve the needs and development of the player of all abilities and the sport as a whole.
The big problem with change is it is uncertain, difficult and unsettling…..so what we tend to do is avoid it. If we do that then we will destroy it and fall behind sports that are more progressive and forward thinking – look what cricket have just done for example.
Just to note a few points. Cricket has been mentioned by Dave a few times, as a sport moving forward in Ireland.
1st: Munster cricket is in a bad way and has not progressed in any way at a senior standard in the last 10 years, probably moved backwards. Youth is very strong due to hard work by a few people, but this has been helped by the exposure of cricket on the television, almost 24/7 from all parts of the world. If kids see it on the television, they will want to play it. But the drop off in numbers is huge due to the lack of standards and the time taken to play the game. The majority of new clubs players are either from a cricket mad nation who have settled here or are passing through.
2nd: Cricket does not have an all Ireland league structure, currently 1 Munster team is playing in both Munster and Leinster leagues in order to try and better their standard, as they are and have been the most consistent performer in Munster for a number of years. Cricket Ireland has a number of national club cups for various standards, same as hockey does.
3rd: They have gone back to the Regional/Provincial structure in order to try and get a 1st class structure in Ireland in order to be recognized eventually for Test class status. This involves a number of competitions, 4 day, one day and T20. All these competitions run over midweek and weekends. Players are paid by the region via a structure and funds set out by Cricket Ireland. (Semi pro)
4: They also get huge funding from the ICC (International Cricket Council) since beating Pakistan and Bangladesh in 2007 this has gone up and up due to playing in regular international competitions, both one Day and T20.
5: The big difference between Hockey and Cricket is the exposure at international level. Last summer England came over to Dublin, played in Malahide to a sold out one day event. Probably 60,000 spectators or so.(not sure of final figures) A huge money spinner. How many do you get at a Hockey international in Dublin? I am sure SKY sports paid a few quid too to broadcast the game. As a result of being near one of the biggest teams and countries for Cricket (England) Ireland has the ability to attract the bigger teams regularly for a short series of games. This brings in big money every year.
6: In some ways they are in a similar position to Hockey, most of their international men are playing abroad professionally in the county scene in England. But Cricket Ireland has the funding to now employ a core of its own players either on full or partial contracts. Some of which are past Hockey players.
I see Daves’ point and agree that we need to change and are cautious to do it. An IHL may make or break the game in Munster or even nationally. I can see a few clubs in each province struggling either way. I do not have all the solutions but I wish Dave had compared Eggs with Eggs as it were, not eggs with bacon.
At the end of the day, Money and plenty of it sorted Cricket Ireland out, but that came from winning two games at the world, cup 7 years ago. If Ireland lost those two games I would not be typing this.
Dave you raise some excellent points regarding player welfare.
For me the most pertinent quote from it is as follows
“In an ideal world the whole competition structure at all levels should be reviewed and reconsidered holistically so that each area (school, club, interpro, varsity) fits together in an aligned system and intergrated to best serve the needs and development of the player of all abilities and the sport as a whole.”
I totally understand Jason’s enthusiasm for this to happen as soon as possible . As with all young players (and not so young coaches !! ) they want things now. The feeling up north regarding this is actually very positive and supportive of the top teams playing each other much more regularly but there is a need to get it right. The current proposal needs much more thought, it doesn’t answer the majority of the concerns of the majority of clubs and because of lack of general consultation so far in the proposal it is being viewed by many as the agenda of if not a few individuals then a few clubs with little regard for the rest.
Let’s agree to an IHL in principle, set an achievable time frame and let’s get all parties together to find a way of making it happen rather than not happen. The reality is that this takes time and what ifs and potential scenarios need played out before implementation. It is too big and issue for a trial run or a suck it and see approach. Me and you both have now coached in club championships, year round IHL and back ended IHL formats…..all within under a decade. We have been part of too many trial runs and the standard is suffering. Let’s take ‘some’ time, get key stakeholders and key people working on this and get it right once and for all.
Dave
This is a very interesting and thought provoking piece. I would love to see an All Ireland League in place as soon as possible. However lets not put the chicken before the egg. Have the Irish Hockey League as the final goal but lets, as a matter of urgency, sort out a JOINED up approach to how we are going to solve the over playing of all players. Running straight into an AIL will not address these issues if we still have no joined up thinking across ALL areas of Irish hockey. An immediate decision on the IHL WILL NOT stop some of the follwoing problems that are arising from a total lack of joined up consultations with all parties involved.
(1) Clarity of registations in all provinces to stop the doubling up and tripling up of our players over a weekend or for Irish Senior and Irish Junior cup. I witnesed a conversation recently where games were being arranged Sat 12, Sat 4pm and Sun 2pm so that one young talented player could play for 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams over the weekend.
(2) Schoolboy and schoolgirl hockey on a Saturday morning especially in Ulster and Leinster. I am not sure we will ever stop it but I see that this weekend in Ulster their big cup competition, the Burley Cup, taking place the MORNING of an IHL weekend??? How is this allowed to happen?
(3) No joined up thinking regarding calendar scheduling – Players playing a league game on the Thursday night here in Leinster before playing in the U21 Interpros that weekend. Worse still players being allowed to go DURING the tournament to fulfil league fixtures here in Leinster????
(4) On the same theme as calendar scheduling the Irish Universities squad are apparently heading to Scotland the same weekend as the IHL Wildcard play offs. I have no knowledge of who this may involve but surely this has been in the calendar for months. Why are we even allowed a clash of dates????
(5) The current IHL has been moved to March to accommodate the Senior Mens programme come April. All of a sudden we see the players being asked to commit to ANOTHER session per week in regional training throughout the IHL campaign. Who is making these decisions and who are they accountable to?
Lets make a list and spend time getting everything in to line. Once we get somewhere close to having ALL stakeholders NOT just the top 30 players and top 5 clubs in line and begin practising some joined up thinking and consultation over the welfare of the players THEN add the IHL on top of what will be a much more robust and free flowing system.
To go ahead with an IHL in the misguided notion that this will fix over playing of players is like putting a roof on a house that has no foundations. It will last for a short period before collapsing in around itself.