Reform proposal defeated, but change is in the air
Proposals to radically reform the make-up of the men’s leagues in Munster hockey were rejected by the narrowest of margins at the Munster Branch of the Irish Hockey Association (MBIHA) AGM at Garryduff last night.
Following a long debate – that was ultimately constructive and not as heated as many had predicated – the proposal from six clubs to remove second-string teams from Division One was defeated by 16 votes to 15, with two abstentions.
The proposers of the motion, led by Ashton’s Dave McCarthy, insisted the spirit of it was not to see players dissipate from the ‘big two’ of Cork C of I and Cork Harlequins, rather that it was to safeguard the developmental work of other clubs to ensure they didn’t lose their best players.
John Rose, seen here presenting the Munster Senior Cup to UCC captain Jean Long, last night stepped down after five years as MBIHA president. He was subsequently awarded honorary life membership. Picture: Eoin Tyrrell
He also claimed there was a need to redress a “dangerous and unsustainable imbalance” given the dominance of the big two.
However, that was predictably met with opposition from C of I and Quins representatives, who argued that the inevitable beatings that would arise in the lower divisions would turn players away from the sport.
With both sides of the debate predicting armageddon for the game in Munster, there was nonetheless a happy ending of sorts.
The closeness of the vote indicated a desire across the board for change one way or the other, with a general acceptance that something must be done to foster increased competition in the province.
The IHA’s regional development officer Phil Oakley preached a gradual approach, while fixtures committee chair Dermot Judge called for the clubs to meet up to discuss the issue further and set out a roadmap for change.
While it remains to be seen whether anything constructive will arise out of the meeting in the coming months – or if the hockey community will be having the same debate in this time 12 months, all in Munster hockey will be hoping there is movement on the issue sooner rather than later.
The remainder of the meeting passed off largely without controversy. Oakley’s presentation to the club representatives painted a positive picture of the state of play in the underage game; for instance, five of the seven clubs with boys’ youth sections increased their numbers this season, as part of a 30% overall rise.
The girls’ participation rate is up 17%, with a new youth club, Crescent HC, setup in Limerick to cater for the demand that has seen waiting lists develop for the underage sections of both Limerick and Catholic Institute.
A new senior club is being set up in Nenagh, while Clonmel are expanding to incorporate a junior section. Oakley signposted Tipperary, Waterford and Dungarvan as targeted points of call next season, as well as continuing efforts to revive boys’ hockey in Villiers and Newtown.
Irish players take shelter amid torrential rain at last July's Celtic Cup in Garryduff. The inclement weather impacted attendances for the tournament, resulting in a missed financial opportunity for the MBIHA. Picture: Adrian Boehm
On the financial side, treasurer Mary Walsh reported an overall increase in income of 23% and a drop in expenditure of 6%, leading to an €11,000 surplus, giving the branch a “slight improvement in its financial position”.
However, Walsh also lamented the awful weather which kept spectators away from last July’s Celtic Cup at Garryduff, reporting that the branch actually lost €1,700 on an event they had hoped would be a significant money-spinner.
Of the remaining motions, moves urging clubs to appoint umpire co-ordinators and appoint one person per team to undergo umpiring training were both approved.
However, potential logistical issues saw a proposal calling on the branch to set fixture times prior to the season’s start soundly defeated.
Nonetheless, there was a positive outcome here too, as a plan for club secretaries to meet up before the beginning of the season to thrash out as many of the fixture times for top games as possible.
Motions calling for cup final venues to be chosen beforehand and the removal of split leagues were withdrawn, while it was decided that nominations lists will be regularly circulated to club secretaries.
Meanwhile, Cork Harlequins manager Pat Sargent will replace outgoing branch president John Rose, who received a series of tributes after five years in office and was awarded honorary life membership. Ivy Dennis saw off a stern challenge from Helen Lynch for the chairperson’s role, which was the only contested committee position.
On the coaching front, many of this year’s interprovincial coaches decided to stay on for 2009/10, though the senior women and U21 men are still without coaches. Perhaps the most notable appointment was that of Andrew Gray to the U16 boys role, following a fruitful few years spent under the tutelage of Stephen Jackson in the senior men’s and U18 boys setups.
MBIHA Council 2009/10President: Pat Sargent Vice-president: Vacant Junior vice-president: Ursula McGarry Chairperson: Ivy Dennis Honorary Secretary: Finbarr Kelleher Honorary Treasurer: Mary Walsh Assistant Honorary Treasurer: Stephen Barry PRO: Finbarr Kelleher MHUA delegate: Mick Duggan Schools: TBC
Standing Committees 2009/10Fixtures Chair: Vacant Men’s Secretary: Alan Wolfe Women’s Div 1 & 2: Sarah Jones Women’s Div 3 & 4: Vacant Women’s Div 5 & 6: Ursula McGarry Ladies Registrar: Vacant Men’s Registrar: Dermot Judge
Andrew Gray (far right) uncorks the champagne following C of I's IJC win last weekend. He will be hoping for more success next season as coach of the Munster U16 boys. Picture: Adrian BoehmCoachingChair: John Hobbs Honorary Secretary: Eddie Gash Committee: Bernie Heffernan, Andrew Gray
Finance, Development & Marketing Chair: Mary Walsh Clubs Representatives Committee: Kieran Healy (UCC), Kate Herbert (Cork Harlequins) Children’s Officers: Reg Treacy, Nicky Stokes
Munster coaching appointments 2009/10Senior Women: Vacant Senior Men: Stephen Jackson U21 Women: Vacant, Liz Kerr (selector) U21 Men: Vacant U18 Girls: David Egner (coach), Briah Hayes Curtin (assistant coach) U18 Boys: Stephen Jackson (coach), Willie Bartley (manager) U16 Girls: John Hobbs (coach), Eddie Gash (assistant coach), Vanessa Sargent (manager) U16 Boys: Andrew Gray (coach), George Blackwell (selector) Junior Women: David Egner (coach), Sean Nicholson (assistant coach) Junior Men: Brian Hayes Curtin (coach)
Post Author:
alangood
10 Replies to “Reform proposal defeated, but change is in the air”
Great that proposal was a joke what did team like Ashton expect Ci or Quins players to go to their club it makes me laugh!
Good post. One point to note is that although there was no support for the proposal to fix match times prior to the start of season, it did result in a plan to call together all club fixture secretaries before the start of the season, to try as far as possible to implement the principle of advance planning of fixture times, to assist umpires, to take pressure off club fixture secretaries, and ultimately yo make the game more attractive to sponsors and the media.
That’s right Dave, forgot to include that in initial post but has been changed now.
The proposal regarding fixing match for all matches was and is completly unrealistic.
The only clubs it could possibly suit would be a club with 1 team. I note from your post you say ‘top games to be fixed’ This is completly different to what Dave McCarthy is saying. ‘The principle of advance planning of fixture times etc etc’ Sounds like he’s been talking and listening to too many politicians !
I believe that since the amalgamation we are worse off…..
16 – 15 seems so close to me due to the women’s votes . The women would have voted to pass the motion, sice they believe that their league structures are the best…. Hence we should do everything like the womens side. The proposal did not matter to them as thats the status quo in their league. After all as someone pointed out at the meeting (a lady) “we have a really close 3 horse race in the womens league, which is great to see”.
If we follow the example from UCC ladies to resurect our leagues all we need so is a similar ammount of money to that UCC have thrown at the sport, in the form of scholorships and coaching budget. Simply we need a director of coaching, a head coach (preferably someone with national experience) and a big wad of cash (in the form of scholorships and wages) and within 3 years we will have another team on the mens side winning Munster Senior cups and qualifying for IHLs.
Any sponsors interested please contact Dave McCarthy at Ashton Hockey club, or any of the 6 clubs who backed this proposal. (Although I’m unsure if UCC were REALLY IN on it, as the first criticism of the proposal came from a UCC player, who I believe had the ladies vote.
The vote was rejected.Get over it.Lets do what was proposed and plan for change and the future.
i’m a player with a womens hockey team in munster and i thought it was dumb to allow the munster ladies to vote on the proposal….it had nothing to do with the ladies side of things so why give us a vote?
@post no.4
The policy of a pre-determined fixture schedule is implemented to a great degree of success in Ulster and Leinster, I don’t see how it is “completly unrealistic” for such a policy to work here. I also don’t see how what Dave said is “completly different” to what was said at the meeting or by AG. Looks like you’re just trying to get a cheap shot which is, to be quite honest, pathetic especially considering the guy has put alot of effort into something that he believed could benefit Munster hockey. If you’re going to stand on you’re high horse, at least do it in person rather then hiding behind a keyboard. Or failing that, at least put up your name instead of the “anon” tag. I bet you were one of those that had a crack off the Munster coach for the “controversial” team selection… behind the safeguards of the keyboard and “anon” of course.
PS: If someone’s vocab expands to the exclusive set of words that have more then two syllables and if someone does not preposition every word by the one-word-to-fit-all-emphases “completely.” It may be an indication that they passed Junior Cert English. But don’t get that get in the way of good ol’ cheap shot.
There has been a positive responce to the motion from all parties, even if not everyont agreed on the original motion. It resulted in one of the largest Branch AGM turnouts in years and, due to that, alot of progress was made in several areas. Its clear that our sport is suffering and something is going to have to be done. NO ONE (not even the wise “anon”) can deny this. Although I am pleased to see many supportive comments passed on the blog, I am dishearted by a neantherdal minority who have made unconstructive and dim-witted replies. A few have suggested that “teams like Ashton” expected players to come flocking to them as a result of the vote, etc. Although I’m sure a further explanation on what “anon” meant by “teams like Ashton” would interest some people, he should try reading the original article where it is stated quite clearly that the purpose of the motion was to prevent young players leaving these clubs (to rival clubs or just the game in general.)
Lets cut out the bitching and sniping and move on, or else we’ll all lose out.
To me as an observer of the game it would seem the most logical solution for all matches to be fixed and that rearrangement of fixtures is not encouraged. I listend to one coach in a bar this year say before the inter-pros that due to the fact that club sides had rearranged fixtures on to dates that the interprovincial squad was training they had not had their full team out prior to the tournamant.
We then get people crirising these coaches for doing their best with limited resources.
A fixed fixture list is essential for planners and club coaches, getting cancellations like one that occured this year, which was that a team could not play because a ‘child was having a birthday party’ cannot be allowed to happen again.
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Great that proposal was a joke what did team like Ashton expect Ci or Quins players to go to their club it makes me laugh!
Good post. One point to note is that although there was no support for the proposal to fix match times prior to the start of season, it did result in a plan to call together all club fixture secretaries before the start of the season, to try as far as possible to implement the principle of advance planning of fixture times, to assist umpires, to take pressure off club fixture secretaries, and ultimately yo make the game more attractive to sponsors and the media.
That’s right Dave, forgot to include that in initial post but has been changed now.
The proposal regarding fixing match for all matches was and is completly unrealistic.
The only clubs it could possibly suit would be a club with 1 team. I note from your post you say ‘top games to be fixed’ This is completly different to what Dave McCarthy is saying. ‘The principle of advance planning of fixture times etc etc’ Sounds like he’s been talking and listening to too many politicians !
I believe that since the amalgamation we are worse off…..
16 – 15 seems so close to me due to the women’s votes . The women would have voted to pass the motion, sice they believe that their league structures are the best…. Hence we should do everything like the womens side. The proposal did not matter to them as thats the status quo in their league. After all as someone pointed out at the meeting (a lady) “we have a really close 3 horse race in the womens league, which is great to see”.
If we follow the example from UCC ladies to resurect our leagues all we need so is a similar ammount of money to that UCC have thrown at the sport, in the form of scholorships and coaching budget. Simply we need a director of coaching, a head coach (preferably someone with national experience) and a big wad of cash (in the form of scholorships and wages) and within 3 years we will have another team on the mens side winning Munster Senior cups and qualifying for IHLs.
Any sponsors interested please contact Dave McCarthy at Ashton Hockey club, or any of the 6 clubs who backed this proposal. (Although I’m unsure if UCC were REALLY IN on it, as the first criticism of the proposal came from a UCC player, who I believe had the ladies vote.
The vote was rejected.Get over it.Lets do what was proposed and plan for change and the future.
i’m a player with a womens hockey team in munster and i thought it was dumb to allow the munster ladies to vote on the proposal….it had nothing to do with the ladies side of things so why give us a vote?
@post no.4
The policy of a pre-determined fixture schedule is implemented to a great degree of success in Ulster and Leinster, I don’t see how it is “completly unrealistic” for such a policy to work here. I also don’t see how what Dave said is “completly different” to what was said at the meeting or by AG. Looks like you’re just trying to get a cheap shot which is, to be quite honest, pathetic especially considering the guy has put alot of effort into something that he believed could benefit Munster hockey. If you’re going to stand on you’re high horse, at least do it in person rather then hiding behind a keyboard. Or failing that, at least put up your name instead of the “anon” tag. I bet you were one of those that had a crack off the Munster coach for the “controversial” team selection… behind the safeguards of the keyboard and “anon” of course.
PS: If someone’s vocab expands to the exclusive set of words that have more then two syllables and if someone does not preposition every word by the one-word-to-fit-all-emphases “completely.” It may be an indication that they passed Junior Cert English. But don’t get that get in the way of good ol’ cheap shot.
There has been a positive responce to the motion from all parties, even if not everyont agreed on the original motion. It resulted in one of the largest Branch AGM turnouts in years and, due to that, alot of progress was made in several areas. Its clear that our sport is suffering and something is going to have to be done. NO ONE (not even the wise “anon”) can deny this. Although I am pleased to see many supportive comments passed on the blog, I am dishearted by a neantherdal minority who have made unconstructive and dim-witted replies. A few have suggested that “teams like Ashton” expected players to come flocking to them as a result of the vote, etc. Although I’m sure a further explanation on what “anon” meant by “teams like Ashton” would interest some people, he should try reading the original article where it is stated quite clearly that the purpose of the motion was to prevent young players leaving these clubs (to rival clubs or just the game in general.)
Lets cut out the bitching and sniping and move on, or else we’ll all lose out.
To me as an observer of the game it would seem the most logical solution for all matches to be fixed and that rearrangement of fixtures is not encouraged. I listend to one coach in a bar this year say before the inter-pros that due to the fact that club sides had rearranged fixtures on to dates that the interprovincial squad was training they had not had their full team out prior to the tournamant.
We then get people crirising these coaches for doing their best with limited resources.
A fixed fixture list is essential for planners and club coaches, getting cancellations like one that occured this year, which was that a team could not play because a ‘child was having a birthday party’ cannot be allowed to happen again.